Dr Who 8x11- Dark Water

[Candlelight]

Well I guess last week that the Cybermen were the destination of all the dead souls collected throughout the season, which would make the Mistress's plan against the Doctor even more deadly considering they all have a vendetta against him. Hopefully something better is done with them; I hate the slow plodding of the current series Cybermen, makes them seem so fake. I much prefer the fluid motion of the 80s Cybermen.

The revelation of the Master's new identity is ok with me. Moffat's one of the worst writers on the show (the first 20 minutes bored me shitless with the whole Clara's gone batshit crazy storyline) but I don't mind how this turned out. Considering how the season has been playing out it had to be a Gallifreyan, and the twist that the Master is now a female is an interesting gimmick, but will see how long it lasts. I highly doubted it would ever be Clara. Clara was ruled out as boyfriend material at the start of the season (thank god) so it needed to be a proper villain to pull it off.

I look forward to seeing how they explain the Master's escape from Gallifrey although given how relatively easy it seemed for two future incarnations of the Doctor to reach Gallifrey during Day of the Doctor it's not hard to expect the Master to escape.

In fact, is this gonna finally explain that mysterious hand we saw leaving the painting...?

 

[Mr Light]

I really, really hope we get an actual flashback scene showing what happened to the Master after "End of Time" rather than just have her talk about it.

 

[Candlelight]

I really, really hope we get an actual flashback scene showing what happened to the Master after "End of Time" rather than just have her talk about it.

There's no point in getting John Simm back for a single flashback. Probably why Gomez is there instead.

It's more likely gonna be what happened in The Day of the Doctor.

 

[Candlelight]

Is this the Mistress escaping from Gallifrey in The Day of the Doctor?

 

[FalTorPan]

I look forward to seeing how they explain the Master's escape from Gallifrey although given how relatively easy it seemed for two future incarnations of the Doctor to reach Gallifrey during Day of the Doctor it's not hard to expect the Master to escape.

Or how easy it seemed for the first two Doctors to reach Gallifrey at the end, given that neither could steer his TARDIS at that time.

 

[Captrek]

I could see them killing her off but letting her go be with Danny, making it a kind of "happy" ending.

They have to survive so that Orson can exist.

It's possible for Danny to stay dead if we go with chrisspringob's theory that Clara is already pregnant, but Clara has to survive.

Well I guess last week that the Cybermen were the destination of all the dead souls collected throughout the season, which would make the Mistress's plan against the Doctor even more deadly considering they all have a vendetta against him.

With the teaser showing the Cybermen coming out of St. Paul's followed by Missy's line about the human race's strategic weakness being that the dead outnumber the living, that wasn't exactly going out on a limb.

I highly doubted it would ever be Clara.

Likewise. There's no way Michelle Gomez' nose is an older version of Jenna Coleman's.

 

[kirk55555]

The Doctor gave her a logical reason why they couldn't just go back and save Danny. She's been traveling with him long enough to know that he wasn't just saying that because he didn't want to save Danny.

WHOOOOOOOSH! You completely miss the point, the scene has nothing to do with her actual plan.

Her actual plan? You mean where she blackmails The Doctor to do something he can't do, and she's knows he can't do, and when he refuses she is totally willing to murder him and kill herself? Great plan Trulely she is a master staragest. If they had put in a line where she admits to bluffing (but still destroys the last key because of an accident) I'd give her some slack. but, even when she thinks she's sent them to their deaths, she says she'd do it again. So, she's still a selfish psycho who was willing to murder someone because she can't accept that someone died.

I could see them killing her off but letting her go be with Danny, making it a kind of "happy" ending.

They have to survive so that Orson can exist.

It's possible for Danny to stay dead if we go with chrisspringob's theory that Clara is already pregnant, but Clara has to survive.

I forgot about him. Well, I still hope they go off together never to be seen again by atleast the Christmas special.

 

[DWF]

I really, really hope we get an actual flashback scene showing what happened to the Master after "End of Time" rather than just have her talk about it.

Why? The Master has "died" and come back many times with no explaination, I don't see the need to explain it now.

 

[Australis]

As someone who has recently lost a parent, I found this episode very disturbing.

This. It wasn't recent... but it was cremation.

 

[Candlelight]

I'm wondering how Danny's "death" will be redone. We didn't see the accident, or his body, so I'm guessing the Doctor will go back and redo it.

Just like Sherlock's "death" in Sherlock.

 

[doubleohfive]

Just when I think Moffat can't out-Moffat himself, he goes and Moffats it all up. Absolutely stupid.

 

[Candlelight]

Just when I think Moffat can't out-Moffat himself, he goes and Moffats it all up. Absolutely stupid.

I don't see the issue. When Matt was leaving everyone was pushing for a female Doctor. Now that we have a female Master everyone is complaining.

Odd.

I would have preferred to have made an entirely new character, but I know that's a stretch even for Moffat.

 

[Australis]

The only thing that kept me in the epsode was Capaldi. Gomez was good to, though I need to see where the Mistress gors next ep. Aside from that, Clara really does need to leave (I don't normally say that of a companion) and the rest of the ep was a pain in the netherspheres (someone had to say it).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is she crazy, or is she faking crazy?

 

[Captrek]

Why were the Doctor and Master the only Time Lords to "survive" the Time War? Were they the only ones not on Gallifrey when it was shunted into the bubble universe?

The Master escaped the Time War because he wasn't on Gallifrey. He used a Fob Watch to turn into a human and fled to the end of time.

Of course, he was also simultaneously on Gallifrey and didn't escape because he ended up going back with them when the Time Lords tried to escape the Time Lock.

How he/she escaped this time hasn't been explained.

The Doctor escaped because of the Moment. It's more accurate to say that he didn't die with the rest of the Time Lords because the Moment spared him (the Time Lock isn't a prison, it's a way to prevent the altering of time). Of course, that isn't an accurate version either since the Doctor ended up not destroying everyone but, instead, trapping Gallifrey in essentially a bubble. Either way, since he was the actor that did it, he wasn't trapped with it.

The Doctor froze Gallifrey with Tardises and stasis cubes stationed around the planet. What happened to Time Lords who weren't on the planet?

And for that matter, wouldn't the Doctor expect the Daleks to have a contingency to rebuild in the event of the mutual destruction of the fleet and Gallifrey? All it would take is withholding a few Daleks from the invasion (or, as it happened, the Emperor's ship surviving the battle).

 

[Mr Light]

One of the many problems with that story I guess for the purposes of simplification we're expected to assume that every single Time Lord in existence was on Gallifrey, and every single Dalek in existence was in orbit of Gallifrey, and when the planet teleported away every single Dalek ship hit every single single Dalek ship at the same instance to destroy every single Dalek ship.

Inescapable logic!

 

[Venardhi]

I'd like to know how Moffat came up with the character of Dr Chang and him looking after Missi's heart. Possibly a deliberate naming though a reference probably lost to most people (and possible even younger Australians).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Chang

And/Or might be a reference to Chang Lee from the tv movie.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Why were the Doctor and Master the only Time Lords to "survive" the Time War? Were they the only ones not on Gallifrey when it was shunted into the bubble universe?

The Master escaped the Time War because he wasn't on Gallifrey. He used a Fob Watch to turn into a human and fled to the end of time.

Of course, he was also simultaneously on Gallifrey and didn't escape because he ended up going back with them when the Time Lords tried to escape the Time Lock.

How he/she escaped this time hasn't been explained.

The Doctor escaped because of the Moment. It's more accurate to say that he didn't die with the rest of the Time Lords because the Moment spared him (the Time Lock isn't a prison, it's a way to prevent the altering of time). Of course, that isn't an accurate version either since the Doctor ended up not destroying everyone but, instead, trapping Gallifrey in essentially a bubble. Either way, since he was the actor that did it, he wasn't trapped with it.

The Doctor froze Gallifrey with Tardises and stasis cubes stationed around the planet. What happened to Time Lords who weren't on the planet?

What makes you think there were any?

 

[Candlelight]

Why were the Doctor and Master the only Time Lords to "survive" the Time War? Were they the only ones not on Gallifrey when it was shunted into the bubble universe?

The Master escaped the Time War because he wasn't on Gallifrey. He used a Fob Watch to turn into a human and fled to the end of time.

Of course, he was also simultaneously on Gallifrey and didn't escape because he ended up going back with them when the Time Lords tried to escape the Time Lock.

How he/she escaped this time hasn't been explained.

The Doctor escaped because of the Moment. It's more accurate to say that he didn't die with the rest of the Time Lords because the Moment spared him (the Time Lock isn't a prison, it's a way to prevent the altering of time). Of course, that isn't an accurate version either since the Doctor ended up not destroying everyone but, instead, trapping Gallifrey in essentially a bubble. Either way, since he was the actor that did it, he wasn't trapped with it.

The Doctor froze Gallifrey with Tardises and stasis cubes stationed around the planet. What happened to Time Lords who weren't on the planet?

And for that matter, wouldn't the Doctor expect the Daleks to have a contingency to rebuild in the event of the mutual destruction of the fleet and Gallifrey? All it would take is withholding a few Daleks from the invasion (or, as it happened, the Emperor's ship surviving the battle).

As Destiny of the Daleks showed, the Daleks aren't very good at forward thinking. They are overconfident and as such - with the exception of the Cult of Skaro for example - they would largely put everything they had into fighting the Time Lords.

As I said earlier, I'll take bets that mysterious hand emerging from the painting from The Day of the Doctor was how the Mistress escaped, meaning Moffat had planned this for some time.

 

[Captrek]

One of the many problems with that story I guess for the purposes of simplification we're expected to assume that every single Time Lord in existence was on Gallifrey, and every single Dalek in existence was in orbit of Gallifrey, and when the planet teleported away every single Dalek ship hit every single single Dalek ship at the same instance to destroy every single Dalek ship.

Inescapable logic!

I have a fanwank about the total destruction of the Dalek fleet save the Emperor's ship.

Spoiler: fanwank

The Daleks had a strategy of MAD as a last resort. They put all the power they could muster into that fleet, and in the event of its destruction the ensuing explosion would obliterate the astmosphere, crust and mantle of Gallifrey, as well as any Time Lord technology. The Emperor's ship was built to withstand the explosion, the rest to participate in it.

Since Gallifrey vanished instead of absorbing some of the energy from the blast, the damage to the Emperor's ship was worse than expected but it still survived.

The Doctor, able to detect the amount of energy on the ships, was able to predict the power of the explosion and hence the total destruction of the fleet, but did not realize that one ship was built to withstand it.

Well, I think it makes a little more sense that way.