Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Looking forward to UNIT showing up-they've faced both the Cybermen (in their first story) and the Master (Delgado, and sort of Ainley and Simm)-but not both. Should be interesting to see Kate's reaction to Missy.
Dr Who 8x11- Dark Water
- Thread starter Lonemagpie
- Start date
Awesome episode.... that was only slightly let down by the fact that the Cybermen being used were the awful, cheesy new Cybermen from Nightmare in Silver, who have that ridiculous walk and somehow manage to be even less threatening and scary than the previous versions.
But they did a fantastic job creating a truly strange and mysterious world with the Nethersphere, and I loved that this was a place even the Doctor seemed completely stumped by-- although not enough to actually buy as being the real afterlife, which I thought was cool.
And for a second there I really did think Missy would be revealed as the Rani, but I have no problem with her being the Master instead (since I have no real attachment or interest in the Rani anyway). And it certainly explains how cheesy and over the top the actress has been all season.
But they did a fantastic job creating a truly strange and mysterious world with the Nethersphere, and I loved that this was a place even the Doctor seemed completely stumped by-- although not enough to actually buy as being the real afterlife, which I thought was cool.
And for a second there I really did think Missy would be revealed as the Rani, but I have no problem with her being the Master instead (since I have no real attachment or interest in the Rani anyway). And it certainly explains how cheesy and over the top the actress has been all season.
I don't know. I think if those people had access to a time machine and knew a Time Lord who could seemingly work miracles and do nearly anything he wanted, they'd probably be tempted to do some pretty rash and crazy things to get their loved ones back as well.
Especially when time travel is as incredibly easy and effortless as it looks on this show.
That's never going to happen as long as those fans keep insist on asking for spoilers.
In the "olden days" the interaction between creator and viewer was minimal - the work stood on the work, and that was it. And now, the creators can't f'ing escape the fans. With Twitter and Facebook and conventions and TV interviews and newspaper interviews and bulletin boards, the fans hammer at Moffat/Abrams/whoever constantly, 25/8, demanding snippets and information and spoilers and clues.
What the hell do you expect them to do in response? They either have to lie to protect the integrity of the work, so that people who want to just enjoy the work as it is like in the olden days can do so, or else they just refuse to give any interviews or promotional material at all, in which case they're branded as arrogant and not caring about interacting with the fans. They can't win.
So yes, of course they're going to lie to and manipulate their fans. It's the only way the game can possibly work in 2014.
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Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Rose did something similar in Father's Day, and given what happened then you can't blame the Doctor for not wanting to change the timeline.
Yeah, this pretty much sums up my viewpoint. The episode was quite a slow-burn, in a let's-get-on-with-it-already way. There were good bits peppered throughout, but for me it finally "got there" in the last fifteen minutes. And despite the Clara's betrayal at the beginning being a hallucination, it still added fuel to the fire of my on-again, off-again dislike for Clara this season.
And while Missy being the Master seemed the obvious choice, I'm actually okay with it, since Michelle Gomez's performance really fits with that. Still not sure how the Master can actually be there though. I'd rather she be a chronological incarnation (with a damn good explanation) than a pre-Yana version.
I do like the how the reveal of the Cybermen worked, and kudos to whoever spotted those Cyberman-eye windows in Missy's office at the end of "Flatline" -- good eye!
The original arrangement was that Time Lords only ever met in the same order. The Doctor never met the Master earlier in the Master's timeline than the last time the Doctor has done so. Whether it's the nature of the Time Vortex or some kind of setting on the TARDIS or just dumb luck, regardless of their position in relation to the rest of the universe, Time Lords were always in parallel with each other.
So it shouldn't be the case that Missy is from before Jacobi or Simm.
However, it's been said many times in nu-Who that the rules that used to govern and control time travel before the Time War are no longer the case. Maybe that means that now, twisting and crossing of timelines is possible. Missy could be from before Jacobi and Simm in that case. But I still don't think that's it.
It's entirely possible that the 'betrayal' Missy refers to hasn't happened yet from the Doctor's perspective. Effect can precede cause quite easily these days - although as I said earlier, I was hoping that the time-wimey-ness that was 11's stock in trade had disappeared with 12.
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I'm pretty sure Danny's death was arranged by the Master to bring Clara into events, which brings the Doctor.
So, it probably wasn't a normal car accident.
Mr Awe
The Doctor gave her a logical reason why they couldn't just go back and save Danny. She's been traveling with him long enough to know that he wasn't just saying that because he didn't want to save Danny. Rose tried to save her Dad, but she didn't really even know what would happen, and knew a whole lot less about how traveling through time worked than Clara. Rose also didn't think she was going to be destroying a world (and she definitely wasn't threatening to kill someone) to do what she did. Clara, of her own free will, was completely willing to murder The Doctor and herself. She wasn't ignorant, or even panicked. It was premeditated, she was perfectly willing and prepared to kill.
I can't see any other serious companion The Doctor has traveled with doing that. Even Leela, who was ethically pretty grey at times and from what I remember did kill a few times, wouldn't have done something like that. I'm just hoping that Clara gets punished for her actions. I could see them killing her off but letting her go be with Danny, making it a kind of "happy" ending.
Yeah but I'm sure Clara figured the Doctor would be able (as he's often been in the past) to find some loophole or some clever way to get around the time paradoxes and world-destroying consequences of bringing Danny back.
I mean I don't think anyone would have expected him to be able to prevent the destruction of Gallifrey in DOTD, but he figured out a way to do that without destroying all of reality. After seeing him pull off that trick, I can easily understand why Clara would think he should be able to stop one little human from being killed in a traffic accident.
I mean I don't think anyone would have expected him to be able to prevent the destruction of Gallifrey in DOTD, but he figured out a way to do that without destroying all of reality. After seeing him pull off that trick, I can easily understand why Clara would think he should be able to stop one little human from being killed in a traffic accident.
Till they were closed, we had the cracks. Gallifrey was able to send messages, even regeneration energy, through them. And apparently they would have (will be) used to bring Gallifrey home.
What's to keep a Time Lord/Lady here and there from swiping a TARDIS and sneaking through. Even, as unlikely as it is, the High Council sending out a scout or two to see if it was safe to return or hunt down the Doctor so he can bring Gallifrey back.
The master actually presumable was on gallifrey when it happened, because he got through that rift thing in End of Time moments before Gallifrey was lost.
Originally he fled the Time War and hid as a fobwatched human at the end of the universe.
I assume his reappearance has to do with the crack appearing on Trenzalore. Maybe he managed to sneak out when the Time lords granted he Doctor his new regeneration cycle.
WHOOOOOOOSH! You completely miss the point, the scene has nothing to do with her actual plan.
I'd like to know how Moffat came up with the character of Dr Chang and him looking after Missi's heart. Possibly a deliberate naming though a reference probably lost to most people (and possible even younger Australians).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Chang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Chang
The Master escaped the Time War because he wasn't on Gallifrey. He used a Fob Watch to turn into a human and fled to the end of time.
Of course, he was also simultaneously on Gallifrey and didn't escape because he ended up going back with them when the Time Lords tried to escape the Time Lock.
How he/she escaped this time hasn't been explained.
The Doctor escaped because of the Moment. It's more accurate to say that he didn't die with the rest of the Time Lords because the Moment spared him (the Time Lock isn't a prison, it's a way to prevent the altering of time). Of course, that isn't an accurate version either since the Doctor ended up not destroying everyone but, instead, trapping Gallifrey in essentially a bubble. Either way, since he was the actor that did it, he wasn't trapped with it.
I'm just rewatching the episode right now and that was my thought when the old lady on Danny's phone said 'the car just came out of nowhere.'
This is, to me, where you're getting it wrong: it wasn't murder, it was a mistake made in the midst of conflict that ended someone's life, and which Danny's been guiltily obsessing ever since (even when he tries to move on and forget).
Murder makes it black and white, good or evil; this is about the moments when good people do bad things by mistake, and then regret them endlessly.
And in the case of the Doctor, do bad things for good reasons, etc.
