Dr Who 8x11- Dark Water

[Shazam!]

Whilst I don't necessarily mind The Master being female I thought the reveal was incredibly clunky. Like someone explaining an unfunny joke: "Missy, y'know, short for Mistress, which is the female version of Master, because that's my name, The Master, I am The Master, but I changed my name to Mistress when I became female, but then shortened it to Missy for... reasons... but I am The Master. Mistress."...

 

[Shazam!]

Which reminds me. Missed opportunity. When Clara is on the lava planet and the Doctor reveals they're not really there... it would have been better if he used his natural hypnotic power (which is almost never mentioned) rather than a technical gizmo.

I was hoping that she genuinely destroyed all the TARDIS keys but then The Doctor just clicks his fingers and the doors open.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

For me, the reason for Danny Pink being a soldier was so that the Doctor could be seen as anti-soldier. However, for me, this shows that Moffat didn't understand the Doctor. The Doctor is a rebellious charismatic leader who went against a culture bound by rules and tradition that breed individuals who were inflexible in their thinking and couldn't think outside the box. (The Time Lord society.) On other worlds, he would found himself attempting to working alongside and against institutions that were like his own. On Earth, that was the British government and military, and UNIT. Yet, the Doctor managed to make friendships with the Brigadier and members of UNIT. The Doctor had the maturity of mind to separate the individual from the culture.

What Danny Pink did, murdering the child, say, could have been done if Danny Pink was a police officer. The situation was unbelievable, even if Pink was a police officer. Soldiers and police don't evacuate houses by themselves; they work in teams. It has been this way for a long time. There is strength and safety in numbers.

I would have liked to have seen an episode where Danny Pink is put into an impossible situation - where his commanding officer, believing he is doing the right thing, orders his men into an act that can be seen as villainous by others. What Danny Pink does in that situation defines who he is, and explains why he is opposed to the Doctor.

A good portrayal of a villain is one who believes that he working for the greater good, and, yet, his actions are seen by others as villainous. Delgado portrayed a good villain - the production team attempted to make the villain as real as possible. They didn't want their actors and actresses pantomiming. For them, they wanted their audience to believe that what they were seeing was as realistic as possible in a fictional setting.

A bad portrayal of a villain is one who does an action because they are villainous. The mustache-twirling, top hat, and evil grin of the villain who ties the damsel in distress on a railroad track, waiting for the hero to save them. Ainley, though a good actor, pantomimed the Master for many of his appearances.

So far, I think Michele Gomez's Missy is the latter. She is evil because her character is evil. She is doing things villainous, because she is a villain.

I am becoming increasingly irritated by the people (Moffat, Abrams) in charge deliberately lying to and manipulating their fans. I am for the execution of the Mystery Box.

 

[The Doctor]

I thought it was great! I mean, The Master's plot (what we know so far, anyhow) is entirely without sense and reason but it's a bit late in the proceedings to get twisted up over things like that now. I really enjoyed just how much this Doctor was unable to deal with The Mistress, who is far more in command of her faculties than the current, slightly befuddled Doctor. He's so old now that he's even forgotten how to 'detect' that it was The Master/Mistress as soon as he laid eyes on her. Ten knew immediately that Yana was The Master once the fob watch was opened in 'Utopia.'

Even better was the 'betrayal' sequence where Clara proves to be incredibly resourceful in her attempt to force The Doctor to save Danny. His reaction to her hurt and grief was spot-on perfect, though once he said 'Go to Hell,' I actually thought he meant it as Clara saw it, as a dismissal. His turnaround and brief baring of his deep feelings for Clara was pitch-perfect Doctor. I still don't like him near as much as Eleven but Capaldi's Doctor has grown on me since his jarring debut.

And poor Danny Pink. Dead and trapped in the nether sphere. It seems pretty clear that the only way that Clara and he can be together again is if The Doctor can preserve all the minds trapped in the nether sphere and Clara joins them somehow.

My biggest hope for next week is that The Mistress escapes with her TARDIS and remains at large, out there. A conflict between The Mistress and The Doctor over Galifrey's eventual discovery would be epic.

Looking forward to next week.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

A good portrayal of a villain is one who believes that he working for the greater good, and, yet, his actions are seen by others as villainous. Delgado portrayed a good villain - the production team attempted to make the villain as real as possible. They didn't want their actors and actresses pantomiming. For them, they wanted their audience to believe that what they were seeing was as realistic as possible in a fictional setting.

Are you kidding? As a villain, as a character, the Delgado Master made absolutely no sense. The production team did not attempt to make him "as real as possible": he did whatever the plot required, his motivations made no sense, he was just an old-fashioned villain being evil because that was what was required of him, getting defeated again and again and coming back with increasingly convoluted plans. That's what the Master used to be, that's what the Master is.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Delgado's Master a realistic villain? Thats not what I saw...

Also, I disagree that Missy didn't resemble Delgado's Master. To me, she reminded me the most of Delgado than any Master before her. She has that ironic smile and mischevious attitude, while also be very serious. Casting-wise, they chose well.

 

[Mr Light]

I'd like to see the Master achieve a sustainable victory for once, like he takes over a planet and keeps it and this becomes a recurring problem for the Doctor.

 

[TommyR01D]

I hope they do something more interesting with the Master/Missy revelation than just "See timelords can change sex hahahaha"-sticktwofingersupatanyonewhomaintainedotherwise as seems to be the case so far.

Maybe we could delve a little further into her back-story. Perhaps she is a stolen body like Tremas (and there could be a flashback with a skeletal John Simm trapping her), or an avatar of sorts (either a ganger or a Cho Je-esque projection) with the "real" master still trapped in a time bubble with Rassilon somewhere.

Since this serial has already done the Mount Doom bit with the TARDIS keys, maybe there could be another scene of The Doctor extracting The Master from Missy like Sauruman from Theoden. Then, it slowly dawns on the viewer that The Master's consciousness has actually moved into The Doctor's body.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I hope they do something more interesting with the Master/Missy revelation than just "See timelords can change sex hahahaha"-

Actually I think that what they've done is more like "well, she's a woman now."

 

[Saul]

Which reminds me. Missed opportunity. When Clara is on the lava planet and the Doctor reveals they're not really there... it would have been better if he used his natural hypnotic power (which is almost never mentioned) rather than a technical gizmo.

I was hoping that she genuinely destroyed all the TARDIS keys but then The Doctor just clicks his fingers and the doors open.

Which Clara should know about since she can open and shut the doors by clicking her fingers too.
But I am guessing this time in her dream state she actually locked the door so it couldn't be opened.

 

[Green Lantern]

I agree that Missy (And Simm) are nothing like Delgado version of The Master. However, I think she is pretty reminiscent of The Ainley Master.

This! And the fact Ainley's my favourite master could mean that Missy could eventually creep up to second favourite despite my originally hating the idea of a female master and still being a tiny tiny bit unsure of it.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

* The bad guy team up (Master+Cybermen) reminded me of "Doomsday" (Daleks v Cybermen).

They never teamed up, though. If anything, it reminded me more of classic who, such as Terror of the Autons where the Master used the Autons to further his schemes.

Regarding the finger snapping thing. I never really was a fan of it (beyond the joke with River). But you can't really accuse the writers of forgetting that with a deliberate dream sequence. Maybe it doesn't work when all the keys are destroyed, maybe she thought ahead to disable that (or thought she did, at least). It's really not the point of the scene.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Apart from 75% of people watching going "Who the fuck is Susan..."

"Which Time Lady?!"

"The one you abandoned... Grandfather."

I could understand a future incarnation of Susan turning out to be mentally disturbed. She would have been a Gallifreyan among humans, remaining young while her husband and everyone else she knew grew old and died, and her beloved grandfather never kept his promise to return.


People were talking about the possibility of a female Doctor as long ago as the Peter Davison/Colin Baker regeneration.


Romana wasn't abandoned. She chose to stay in E-Space of her own free will, because otherwise she would have had to return to Gallifrey - and she definitely didn't want to. Staying in E-Space with Biroc and the Tharils was her only way of avoiding that.


For those of us who remember Roger Delgado and Anthony Ainley, the modern incarnations of the Master are so far from the suave, debonair villain of the '70s and '80s, that they are practically different people. Delgado and Ainley's portrayals were of a villain who could be utterly charming while being utterly ruthless, but ever since the TV movie, the Master has just been portrayed as a creepy, disgusting caricature.

When Missy said "You left me behind" I said "fuck me: IT'S-ROMANA!"

That stuck with me so hard that when Missy admitted who she really was I still thought, "Why is Romana ####ing with him?"

He didn't leave her behind. She chose to stay.

It be really warped if the Master and Romana were the same time lord. But Romana (aka Fred) was never the warped.

From the Doctor's reaction to "Romanadvoratrelundar," I'm guessing most Time Lord/Lady names aren't so convoluted.

Susan chose to stay where she did too, no? [Edit: No, not so much]

Like you said about Susan becoming disturbed, the same could have been true for Romana, so equal odds for those two.


I'm wondering if Missy is someone else, like the Rani and is just lying about being the Master. I agree her actions are more Rani-like than anything.

 

[kirk55555]

I voted "no emotion either way". I'm glad Missy is The Master, that's what I wanted to happen. The Doctor was great as always. But, I can't say I was sad to see Danny die. The only thing I don't like is the possibility that he won't stay dead. The cybermen thing was interesting, so now that the set up is out of the way I think the second part could be better.

But, Clara is officially irredeemable. Dream or not, she betrayed The Doctor worse than any companion ever (well, from what little I know I guess Turlough joining the Doctor solely for premeditated murder might count as worse, but he never actually did it, and changed his mind about doing it, so Clara is still worse to me). She was willing to kill herself, The Doctor and, by extension, everyone in the universe The Doctor could ever help from that point forward, all because she's a selfish ass.

I mean, I get why she was emotional over the death, but it doesn't justify a murder/suicide. It was worse because she said she'd do it again, so it wasn't like she was bluffing and it went wrong. She's a psycho who will literally murder someone because she can't come to terms with the fact that everybody dies. She's been pretty bad this season, but she's now officially my choice as the worst companion. She's selfish, arrogant, and definitely not right in the head. People throughout history have dealt with a loved ones death without trying to kill someone else, so I don't buy any "she was mad with grief" excuse for her. She's a horrible person, and the Doctor deserves better. Hopefully he'll get that in the next series.

 

[Marsden]

I'm going back to what I said back after "Into the Dalek" and say that these people aren't dead. They were about to die and were taken just before, now being made to think they are so their will can be subverted into Cybermen. Danny's not dead if he doesn't delete himself.

 

[Shazam!]

I hope they do something more interesting with the Master/Missy revelation than just "See timelords can change sex hahahaha"

Yep, my fear has always been that they'd reduce it to a gimmick just to get a few jokes in. Which is the direction we seem to be heading in : (

 

[Etoile]

Human conciousness used as RAM?

Shades of "Silence in the Library" there...

And the Doctor being inside Clara's dream at the volcano puts me in mind of "Amy's Choice," too.

* Companion's boyfriend is "dead" but then he comes back but then he's really a robot ("The Pandorica Opens")

And if we throw in Torchwood, we've got the star-crossed Ianto/Lisa "my girlfriend the Cyberman" story to contend with...

 

[chardman]

Voted "No emotions either way"

Because only half a story so far though Moffat needs to have so dam good explanations on hand about why the Master is now a lady + out of the time lock.

Now a lady because Timelords regenerate, and it's already been established (through dialog) that gender-swapping can occur in regeneration, so no further explanation is required.

As per being out of the timelock: perhaps that hasn't happened yet? As I suggested earlier, maybe this is an incarnation of the Master that precedes the timelock, and both the Simms and Jacobi incarnations. It is a time travel series after all, and characters do encounter one another out of sequence from time to time (Re: River).

 

[C_Miller]

I voted "no emotion either way". I'm glad Missy is The Master, that's what I wanted to happen. The Doctor was great as always. But, I can't say I was sad to see Danny die. The only thing I don't like is the possibility that he won't stay dead. The cybermen thing was interesting, so now that the set up is out of the way I think the second part could be better.

But, Clara is officially irredeemable. Dream or not, she betrayed The Doctor worse than any companion ever (well, from what little I know I guess Turlough joining the Doctor solely for premeditated murder might count as worse, but he never actually did it, and changed his mind about doing it, so Clara is still worse to me). She was willing to kill herself, The Doctor and, by extension, everyone in the universe The Doctor could ever help from that point forward, all because she's a selfish ass.

I mean, I get why she was emotional over the death, but it doesn't justify a murder/suicide. It was worse because she said she'd do it again, so it wasn't like she was bluffing and it went wrong. She's a psycho who will literally murder someone because she can't come to terms with the fact that everybody dies. She's been pretty bad this season, but she's now officially my choice as the worst companion. She's selfish, arrogant, and definitely not right in the head. People throughout history have dealt with a loved ones death without trying to kill someone else, so I don't buy any "she was mad with grief" excuse for her. She's a horrible person, and the Doctor deserves better. Hopefully he'll get that in the next series.

Interesting how two people can watch the same thing and get two completely different reactions. This season has made Clara probably my favorite companion of the New Era and definitely top three of all time. I like her because she is flawed, but her flaw isn't being dumb. She's just as clever as everyone else and can match wits with The Doctor, but while he is a Time Lord, she is human with all of the pitfalls of that.

Did she react poorly to this situation, yes of course. But that's the point. Not all humans are going to react in the same way to that situation, but I'm sure there have been times where she reacted gracefully in a situation where most humans would be entirely blindsided. Such as jumping into the Doctor's Time Stream or what have you. Humans are brilliant because they have different reactions to the same stimuli.

And either way, the only reason she did it is because she is the only human in that situation. It's not about killing someone because the love of your life died, it's about the fact that she knows a Time Traveler. Every irrational thought is poured into the idea that she has the unique ability to do something about it. Rose did a similar thing in Father's Day. She damned all of time to save her father and she had never even met her father. Not really.

But, you're not wrong in your opinions. They're just that. Opinions. It's cool that this show can work on different levels for different people. It'd be boring if it was so cut and dry that there was no room for other interpretations.

 

[JoeZhang]

Voted "No emotions either way"

Because only half a story so far though Moffat needs to have so dam good explanations on hand about why the Master is now a lady + out of the time lock.

Now a lady because Timelords regenerate, and it's already been established (through dialog) that gender-swapping can occur in regeneration, so no further explanation is required.

As per being out of the timelock: perhaps that hasn't happened yet? As I suggested earlier, maybe this is an incarnation of the Master that precedes the timelock, and both the Simms and Jacobi incarnations. It is a time travel series after all, and characters do encounter one another out of sequence from time to time (Re: River).

The time-lock is a plot device, it's not a 'thing' and it looks like a thing that Moffat isn't that interested in - The Doctor has traveled recently to his own childhood, he's interacted with post end of the war Gallifrey and interacted with end of the war Gallifrey - so the Master not being interact or get around the time-lock is just something that be hand-waved away with a line of dialogue.