M
marlboro
Guest
Truly.
Even worse, without your suggested title, I couldn't respond with "Dr. Julian Bashir: Creep Case? Nein"
Dr. Julian Bashir: The Creep of Deep Space Nine
- Thread starter ALF
- Start date
Truly.
Even worse, without your suggested title, I couldn't respond with "Dr. Julian Bashir: Creep Case? Nein"
I will admit right off the bat, I have not seen every ep of DS9 (and I love Quark, so there, I am a weirdo) ..but, I also started working full time in the(VERY LATE) '80s, and believe me, I have had my fair share of gross harassment, and I am neither super good looking, and no wilting flower, and I dressed about as conservatively as they came.
I have had to bag dudes in their jewels more than once in the workplace to stop the incessant grinding, and I even threatened a couple with a punch in the face. And they were the upper management. You can just imagine what the worker bees did. That behaviour didn't even BEGIN to cease until the 21st century, and even then it was another 10 years before it became civilized. Granted, I work in a male dominated industry, but it is heaven now compared to 20 years ago. And I never once complained. I just stood my ground. SO....with that in mind, I guess I watch all the shows with the eras they were produced in, and having lived through some of those years working with men, for me...it just is a reflection of not the show, but the male dominated world the show was produced in. Yes, they superficially empowered women, but you couldn't erase the male dominion it was made in completely. Take it as a lesson that it is a time we never want to return to. Don't rail against it...just ensure it doesn't happen again.
I have had to bag dudes in their jewels more than once in the workplace to stop the incessant grinding, and I even threatened a couple with a punch in the face. And they were the upper management. You can just imagine what the worker bees did. That behaviour didn't even BEGIN to cease until the 21st century, and even then it was another 10 years before it became civilized. Granted, I work in a male dominated industry, but it is heaven now compared to 20 years ago. And I never once complained. I just stood my ground. SO....with that in mind, I guess I watch all the shows with the eras they were produced in, and having lived through some of those years working with men, for me...it just is a reflection of not the show, but the male dominated world the show was produced in. Yes, they superficially empowered women, but you couldn't erase the male dominion it was made in completely. Take it as a lesson that it is a time we never want to return to. Don't rail against it...just ensure it doesn't happen again.
I don't take the accusation here against Bashir very seriously. For me, it's just an interesting question to pose.
Sarina is the only really terribly unethical one, and he owned up to it.
Melora was an independent self-possessed woman who reciprocated, Leeta and Ezri were completely mutual and returned his affection. His pursuit of Jadzia in the first season was a little borderline maybe, but she was also a powerful woman capable of shutting it down with no implied consequences.
I don't think you need to shame assertive male behavior to be feminist.
Melora was an independent self-possessed woman who reciprocated, Leeta and Ezri were completely mutual and returned his affection. His pursuit of Jadzia in the first season was a little borderline maybe, but she was also a powerful woman capable of shutting it down with no implied consequences.
I don't think you need to shame assertive male behavior to be feminist.
Last edited:
Come to think of it, after Quark, I think if you called anyone on DS9 a creep it'd have to be Dax. Dax is much more sexually aggressive than Bashir, we just see it differently because for a female sexual aggression is considered subversive.
If Dax was male, and he had the same amount of sexual partners, constantly flaunted his previous lovers in the face of his lovely wife Worfette then verbally smacked her down for exhibiting jealousy, and tried to get his more repressed friends involved at every opportunity, we'd all be calling him the creep.
Hell, you want a creep, look no further than Curzon. Washed Jadzia out of the program because he had the hots for her.
If Dax was male, and he had the same amount of sexual partners, constantly flaunted his previous lovers in the face of his lovely wife Worfette then verbally smacked her down for exhibiting jealousy, and tried to get his more repressed friends involved at every opportunity, we'd all be calling him the creep.
Hell, you want a creep, look no further than Curzon. Washed Jadzia out of the program because he had the hots for her.
We'd also be calling him Will Riker. *slaps knee*
I don't think Jadzia was rubbing Worf's face in it. She doesn't have to be ashamed of who she dated before she met him. If Worf is jealous, that's his own damn problem, not hers.
Not intentionally, but who still pushes their partners buttons in such a way...
^ It's Worf who lets his buttons GET pushed. Jadzia wasn't cheating on him, but she has every right to reminisce about old times. That happened before they met, and it's not happening anymore, which means it's none of Worf's business.
If Worf had wanted to talk about K'Ehleyr, he'd have that right as well.
If Worf had wanted to talk about K'Ehleyr, he'd have that right as well.
I never said she was cheating, but she's deliberately doing something she knows annoys the man she loves. That's still kind of a dick move.
Unless it's some kind of Klingon angry sex foreplay?
Unless it's some kind of Klingon angry sex foreplay?
I was just watching season 7 DS9 where Worf and Ezri are captured and Worf is confronting her about her dreams of Julian.
He then says something I think is interesting "Jadzia had feelings for him as well" almost in a sense of paranoid despair.
So that leads me to believe that Jadzia did reciprocate Julian's attraction and I recall at one point she admitted she enjoyed his attention.
This leads credence to the notion that if Worf had not come along then as Julian matured Jadzia would have eventually accepted his advances.
He then says something I think is interesting "Jadzia had feelings for him as well" almost in a sense of paranoid despair.
So that leads me to believe that Jadzia did reciprocate Julian's attraction and I recall at one point she admitted she enjoyed his attention.
This leads credence to the notion that if Worf had not come along then as Julian matured Jadzia would have eventually accepted his advances.
It implies that Bashirnwas at least in part attracted by the intelligence...the Dax part of the equation (not that Jadzia wasn’t also intelligent etc..she was...but the implication is Bashir was as attracted to Dax as Jadzia. Admittedly the same is true of Worf...all Jadzias Klingon stuff is actually Curzons after all. Which in a way means Bashir was more interested in the whole as it were.)
It makes Ezri into another form of romantic character with Bashir...the one has everything the ‘one who got away’ had, but also had something else...and the something else is what makes it work, and what makes them then click.
In Ezris case, it could be that she was ‘younger’ and therefor closer to Julian in some ways, more vulnerable, (in a pleasant way) more close to him in profession and outlook, and maybe even that now she didn’t outrank him and there was no major power issue at play.
I actually don’t like that the books took the turn they did, not least as I find spy Bashir dull, and Serena even more so.
You should've called this:
Dr. Julian Bashir: Creep Space Nine
Dr. Julian Bashir: Creep Space Nine
It's a situation that everyone who remembers a past life connection faces, which for me is one reason the character is so compelling.
I have actually heard that memories can be passed down between organ donor and recipient in cases like heart transplants...
I think for the most part that's either been debunked, or the small sample size of any study done has at least put significant doubt on it.
Similar threads
