Donny's Refit Enterprise Interiors (Version 2.0)

[Workbee]

It did seem to be a horrible waste of space. I think it was used more for the visual "wow" factor, and that we never really did get much of a look inside the ship during TOS' run, save a few sets. It quite effectively drove home how this was "an almost entirely new Enterprise". Its use was almost certainly more about appearances than practicality.

It does make sense for the cargo bay have some kind of open access from the shuttle bay, simply because the shuttle bay had the largest exterior opening on the ship and you probably can’t rely on transporters alone to get everything in and out of the ship. (an aspect TNG arguably dropped first - likely because the same set was sized to represent both the shuttlebay and cargo bay).

I have since come to love the TMP shuttlebay / cargo deck. I think Probert did a masterful job of tying together pre-established elements to make something workable.

 

[Donny]

It did seem to be a horrible waste of space. I think it was used more for the visual "wow" factor, and that we never really did get much of a look inside the ship during TOS' run, save a few sets. It quite effectively drove home how this was "an almost entirely new Enterprise". Its use was almost certainly more about appearances than practicality.

I think it's well known I'm a fan of MSGTTE, even though it's not canon and it's not a Bible for my project or anything, but it does offer an excuse for the large cargo facility. Basically, the new streamlined warp intermix chamber freed up a lot of space in the secondary hull that had previously been taken up by large, bulky engineering and power equipment in the TOS Enterprise. This now empty space was then given to the large cargo facility we see in TMP.

On another note, something I've been wondering about are those white structures flanking each side of the cargo bay and serve as the middle deck's rail-less balcony. I seem to recall reading somewhere that these structures were meant to slide together, meeting in the middle of the cargo bay, and serve as another deck to place additional free-standing cargo pods. I thought this was described in MSGTTE, but after re-reading the chapters on these 3 decks, I can't find that detail anywhere. Does anyone else recall this, and where this information may have been found? It certainly seems like this was intdended by Probert, given that these white structures are nestled into a track on the cargo bay's aft wall, just below the opening into the elevator section. The problem with this, however, is that these sliding modular decks, when stowed as they are in the matte paintings, would need clearance of 30ish feet extending outward from the cargo bay's port and starboard walls, and as stated before there just isn't much room beyond these walls before hitting the exterior hull. I know I'm going to extend things a bit further than would realistically fit, but 30 feet is a stretttttch . Any ideas?

(Flickr is down at the moment, so please refer to this post to see images of the cargo bay I've previously posted to see which structures I'm talking about: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/donnys-refit-enterprise-interiors-version-2-0.297266/page-63#post-12954115)

 

[David cgc]

I don't think I've ever seen in writing, but I have noticed it looked that way in the painting. The pocket floor not having enough room to retract doesn't strike me as that big of a problem; metamaterials, wacky telescoping, and good old fashioned movie magic. No, the things that worried me were how it would wrap around the turboshaft (though I suppose if you had the floor telescope from the front and back rather than the sides, that would solve both problems, but it might make new ones depending on how you're planning to make the elevators elevate) and that it cuts off access to the bottom level of cargo (though that's ameliorated if you put the cargo transporters down there somewhere). That also reminds me, there's clearly a large pocket door seperating the shuttle and cargo bays, but its hard to see where it goes, unless the slats are extremely narrow, or each slat has a pair of doors within to allow access along the walkways when stowed.

This cargo bay is like one of those tiny apartments you see videos of, where all the furniture is attached to hinges and folds, so the bed turns into the kitchen when you flip it over or whatever.

 

[Donny]

I don't think I've ever seen in writing, but I have noticed it looked that way in the painting. The pocket floor not having enough room to retract doesn't strike me as that big of a problem; metamaterials, wacky telescoping, and good old fashioned movie magic. No, the things that worried me were how it would wrap around the turboshaft (though I suppose if you had the floor telescope from the front and back rather than the sides, that would solve both problems, but it might make new ones depending on how you're planning to make the elevators elevate) and that it cuts off access to the bottom level of cargo (though that's ameliorated if you put the cargo transporters down there somewhere). That also reminds me, there's clearly a large pocket door seperating the shuttle and cargo bays, but its hard to see where it goes, unless the slats are extremely narrow, or each slat has a pair of doors within to allow access along the walkways when stowed.

This cargo bay is like one of those tiny apartments you see videos of, where all the furniture is attached to hinges and folds, so the bed turns into the kitchen when you flip it over or whatever.

That large “pocket door” separating the two bays isn’t a pocket door at all. This baffled me too until recently when I realized this door is made of up 12 slats of equal dimension, 6 on each side, that are staggered and all slide into their respective spaces to form a barrier. Much like how the conical flight deck doors operate, but in a linear fashion. Therefore, when they are stowed like we see in the matte paintings, they all form one large block of slats. You can even see the individual tracks these run on in the matte paintings.

The smaller doorways on each side of the larger doorway have their own pocket doors, however.

Also, I should note that is my belief that the large elevators move up and down on a vertical track, rather than a large hydraulic below. To the port and starboard you can see this white colored track is anchored to the support struts on either side of the elevator bay. It’s my belief that the center piece between the two elevators also extends upward to meet the flight deck, and also contains a track for the elevators to follow. When either of the two elevators is up to the flight deck, this center piece must be up as well.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Oh my... I remember there being a thread many years ago, either in Trek Art or Trek Tech about the Refit Enterprise and its combined cargo/hangar space. I remember all this stuff being discussed -- the slide-out decks, the sliding wall that would separate the cargo bay from the hangar... Hopefully it's still here somewhere.

 

[GNDN18]

This cargo bay is like one of those tiny apartments you see videos of, where all the furniture is attached to hinges and folds, so the bed turns into the kitchen when you flip it over or whatever.

 

[BK613]

Oh my... I remember there being a thread many years ago, either in Trek Art or Trek Tech about the Refit Enterprise and its combined cargo/hangar space. I remember all this stuff being discussed -- the slide-out decks, the sliding wall that would separate the cargo bay from the hangar... Hopefully it's still here somewhere.

I remember @blssdwlf going over this in his "TOS Enterprise WIP" thread. Maybe that is what you recall...
Starting at post 175
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-enterprise-wip.119751/page-9

 

[Maurice]

@Donny
From the horse's mouth (the cargo bay). (LINK)

From this lower angle, you can see the secondary "rollaway" decks protruding somewhat from the sides of the bay (light bluish color). In their current retracted position, they serve as a walkway at that level. The idea here was that, once the main deck was filled with free-standing pods, the second deck could slide together, doubling the available deck space. Not an ideal solution, but one that worked with the plate footage that had already been shot.​

 

[Donny]

@Donny
From the horse's mouth (the cargo bay). (LINK)

From this lower angle, you can see the secondary "rollaway" decks protruding somewhat from the sides of the bay (light bluish color). In their current retracted position, they serve as a walkway at that level. The idea here was that, once the main deck was filled with free-standing pods, the second deck could slide together, doubling the available deck space. Not an ideal solution, but one that worked with the plate footage that had already been shot.​

Thanks, @Maurice! That's exactly what I was looking for. I definitely want to bring this to life in my version.

 

[Maurice]

Also, I think the unseen forward wall probably looks like this image (LINK).

Here's the root page for all the TMP stuff on his old site (LINK). There's a page about the hangar, too.

 

[Maurice]

Some more info for you, from a post I put on the old Flare forum a million years ago, from answers I got from Andy Probert:

1. Most of the little squares around the perimeter of [the] top of the saucer section were intended to be inspection hatches, not lifeboats.

2. The lifeboat seen in the cargo deck was one of many that he intended to be along both sides of the engineering hull. He said he wanted there to be rows of hatch markings down either side, but that was nixed.

3. The botanical deck windows origjnated because he and Richard Taylor were picturing the ship like a majestic ocean liner, and one key feature of such ships are large windows in the dining rooms. The windows ended up where they are because it was one of the few places on the not hull already spoken for. A miniature room was built, but scrapped when someone go the idea that if people saw a room through the windows, they'd want to go into it. Later the trees were put in.

3. Some preproduction drawings of the ship feature red pinstriping (some of which ended up being copied onto the Reliant), and he says that a whole set of red pinstripe decals were produced for the model, and were intended to be the final touch on the model. They were to go around the edge of the saucer and outline the manuevering thrusters, and outline those bluish areas on the edges of the dorsal and pylons, around the grills on the front of the nacelles, and then along the tops of the nacelles, etc. He said a set of the decals were tested and looked great, then peeled off when the painters went to work doing the pearlescent paintjob. Afterwards, some of them convinced Trumbull not to use the pinstripes, so they were left off.

4. Andy said he hated the original bubble-like superstructure and the lower dome of the saucer that he carried over from the Joe Jennings [sic]* plans for the Phase II ship, and jumped on the chance to redesign those then Trumbull wanted to add the external spotlights.

5. On the ST:TMP Blueprints, the reason the docking port on the secondary hull is labeled "engineering" because it's the main docking port of the engineering hull, so it's not a mislabel.​

Source (link). I was MrNeutron on that board.

* Actually Matt Jefferies. My bad.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Some preproduction drawings of the ship feature red pinstriping, and he says that a whole set of red pinstripe decals were produced for the model, and were intended to be the final touch on the model. <snip> ...around the grills on the front of the nacelles, and then along the tops of the nacelles, etc.

The red pinstriping around the nacelles made it into the giant painted backdrop that's behind the Rec Room windows during the briefing scene. Of course, you can barely make out any of the painting behind all the extras, but here's a behind-the-scenes photo:

http://missionlogpodcast.com/discovereddocuments/091/

 

[137th Gebirg]

Good lord that’s a huge painting! I always thought that picture was blue screened in post. Such amazing work was done on that film.

 

[Donny]

Some more info for you, from a post I put on the old Flare forum a million years ago, from answers I got from Andy Probert:

1. Most of the little squares around the perimeter of [the] top of the saucer section were intended to be inspection hatches, not lifeboats.

2. The lifeboat seen in the cargo deck was one of many that he intended to be along both sides of the engineering hull. He said he wanted there to be rows of hatch markings down either side, but that was nixed.

3. The botanical deck windows origjnated because he and Richard Taylor were picturing the ship like a majestic ocean liner, and one key feature of such ships are large windows in the dining rooms. The windows ended up where they are because it was one of the few places on the not hull already spoken for. A miniature room was built, but scrapped when someone go the idea that if people saw a room through the windows, they'd want to go into it. Later the trees were put in.

3. Some preproduction drawings of the ship feature red pinstriping (some of which ended up being copied onto the Reliant), and he says that a whole set of red pinstripe decals were produced for the model, and were intended to be the final touch on the model. They were to go around the edge of the saucer and outline the manuevering thrusters, and outline those bluish areas on the edges of the dorsal and pylons, around the grills on the front of the nacelles, and then along the tops of the nacelles, etc. He said a set of the decals were tested and looked great, then peeled off when the painters went to work doing the pearlescent paintjob. Afterwards, some of them convinced Trumbull not to use the pinstripes, so they were left off.

4. Andy said he hated the original bubble-like superstructure and the lower dome of the saucer that he carried over from the Joe Jennings plans for the Phase II ship, and jumped on the chance to redesign those then Trumbull wanted to add the external spotlights.

5. On the ST:TMP Blueprints, the reason the docking port on the secondary hull is labeled "engineering" because it's the main docking port of the engineering hull, so it's not a mislabel.​

Source (link). I was MrNeutron on that board.

Thanks for all that info! I especially like the idea of a dining area going where the botanical garden is. That reminds me....I'll have to start preparing for a virtual botanical garden soon! And I also have some nice ideas for a dining area filling out the remainder of C deck forward of the officer's lounge.

The red pinstriping around the nacelles made it into the giant painted backdrop that's behind the Rec Room windows during the briefing scene. Of course, you can barely make out any of the painting behind all the extras, but here's a behind-the-scenes photo:

http://missionlogpodcast.com/discovereddocuments/091/

Awesome pics! I haven't seen those before. And a rare shot of the corridor before the light panels were added! Wow!

By the way, here's the latest progress on the block-out of the cargo bay and adjoining shuttle elevator section. Going to get the turboshafts in place tomorrow, and then begin detailing the individual meshes. I've got a three-day weekend ahead of me and hope to get a good amount of *fun* work done. It's just a block-out so far to get the dimensions worked out, so don't judge individual details too harshly

 

[Maurice]

Thanks for all that info! I especially like the idea of a dining area going where the botanical garden is. That reminds me....I'll have to start preparing for a virtual botanical garden soon! And I also have some nice ideas for a dining area filling out the remainder of C deck forward of the officer's lounge.


Awesome pics! I haven't seen those before. And a rare shot of the corridor before the light panels were added! Wow!

By the way, here's the latest progress on the block-out of the cargo bay and adjoining shuttle elevator section. Going to get the turboshafts in place tomorrow, and then begin detailing the individual meshes. I've got a three-day weekend ahead of me and hope to get a good amount of *fun* work done. It's just a block-out so far to get the dimensions worked out, so don't judge individual details too harshly

Nice. Are you heeding this?: "Taking a look at the catwalk running aft, you see how it narrows, conforming to the ship sides. Unfortunately, I overlooked that angle detailing on the hanger level below."

 

[Maurice]

[...]It’s my belief that the center piece between the two elevators also extends upward to meet the flight deck[...].

Damn, I know Andy addressed that area in an interview. Guess I can just call him up and ask.

 

[Donny]

Nice. Are you heeding this?: "Taking a look at the catwalk running aft, you see how it narrows, conforming to the ship sides. Unfortunately, I overlooked that angle detailing on the hanger level below."

I did see that. But I’m choosing to ignore it for various reasons. The catwalk is pretty narrow already, and tapering it would make it narrow at the end to a ridiculous degree. If instead I just angled the catwalk (without a taper) to conform with the hull at 5 degrees, it would then mean I would have to angle the sides of the elevators to match, which then makes them funky. Not an easy workaround to this. Modeling it straight seems to be the best solution, and since Probert admits he didn’t conform other elements to this taper (which is evident if you check carefully), either way I go I’ll have to sacrifice some other detail, deviating from the matte painting. So I’ll have to pick and choose.

There just isn’t a perfect way to make all this fit. My final result won’t satisfy every demand to make this 100% physically accurate, unfortunately.

 

[Donny]

Damn, I know Andy addressed that area in an interview. Guess I can just call him up and ask.

He covered it in that link you sent yesterday. Talked about how that center piece moves up and acts as a guide for the elevators. I was right on the money!

 

[Lt. Washburn]

Hmm, I wonder if the big floor numbers match those used in TNG's shuttlebay.

 

[cardinal biggles]

^Looks like it's the same font.

TMP cargo bay: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0391.jpg
TNG Shuttlebay 3 in "The Child": http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x01/thechild_hd_013.jpg