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"Dollhouse" probably cancelled - THX FOX

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BlackestPanther said:
People like us lose every time a genre show is cancelled.
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No, if that show is a pile of crap, we WIN. It gets the message across that SF fans aren't a pile of losers that watch anything SF no matter how bad it is; and as a result, next SF show/movie has a higher chance of actually being good.
 
You can't blame Fox for canceling Dullhouse. It took six episode to give the audience a plausible story! SIX!!! It's way too long!
 
Gregsmack said:
Bob The Skutter said:
Gregsmack said:
This is the problem right here. Why couldn't the show have been good to begin with? Why should any audience be expected to wait for something to maybe start getting good?
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Why couldn't TNG be good for the first 3 seasons? Why did Star Trek fans always have to "wait for 3 season" for the shows to find their feet? Why do networks have to mess with shows and "improve" them?

The "talent" don't make shows in a vacuum they more often than not have to bend to the will of the execs. I'm not saying that's an excuse for poor shows all the time, but there has been a noticable improvement of Dollhouse since they got to the "untampered" episodes.
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TNG's first two seasons were among the worst TV ever aired, Star Trek or otherwise. It did not deserve to continue but it did. That's the way it goes. I have no doubt that whether or not Dollhouse was good or not would have made a difference in it being canceled or renewed. All I was referring to was the idea that some fans, for some reason, are willing to invest their time into mediocrity. Network-tampered mediocrity, but mediocrity nonetheless. If something isn't good from the get-go, for whatever reason it may be, and people recognize that it isn't good, then why should it be allowed to run?

Regarding TNG and DS9: I was rather young when their first seasons aired. Going back to watch those episodes on DVD is a serious chore, and I often wonder how (and why) fans stuck it out for that long. On the other hand, Voyager had a great premise, but I jumped ship early because it became pretty garbage rather quick. I don't care about the behind-the-scenes politics or network interference. If it ain't good, it ain't good.

This is just me though. I have some serious high standards nowadays.

That being said, I feel bad for all the Whedon fans who were hoping for a great series. As a rabid BSG fan, I am really looking forward to Ron Moore's Virtuality while also hoping it can survive on the shitshow otherwise known as FOX.
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Obviously I can't speak for others, but I tend to go very easy on shows I once liked, or think I could like. It's why I watched Voyager and Enterprise till the end, even though they were rubbish, I thought they could be better and hoped they would be. Enterprise it happened, Voyager just got worse.
24 I watched 2 and a half seasons more than I would have if I didn't originally like the show.
I see nothing wrong with giving a show time to find it's feet, or find it's way when it goes off the tracks. Sure there are shows I give 1 episode to impress me, then never watch again, but I think the difference is I already like the idea of the shows that I go easy on, and just give it time to impress me.
 
Ayelbourne said:
And guess why it took six episodes.
Because FOX wanted it that way.
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That's right. The EVIL FOX NETWORK wanted to waste millions of dollars just to spite SF fans. :guffaw:

Here's the problem though. If, as it is claimed, the "true" version of the series starts with Episode Six, then Whedon is fully responsible for the almost universally panned Episode Seven.

Can't have it both ways.
 
The breaking point is most likely going to be the season finale and the DVR numbers of the finale.
 
BlackestPanther said:
Starship Polaris said:
Talking about this sort of thing to folks who like Whedon is just like trying to discuss...
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Fixed that for you.
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You didn't and couldn't - you're unqualified.

Gregsmack said:
TNG's first two seasons were among the worst TV ever aired, Star Trek or otherwise. It did not deserve to continue but it did.
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TNG's first year, with all of its problems, was more entertaining and fresh than much of the stuff that Trekkies praise - that is why it quickly built the largest audience of any Trek show since TOS had been on NBC, with most of that audience being previously non-Trek fans.

Those folks wouldn't be hanging around for much of the "brilliance" of post-TNG Trek, either, leading to the decline and eventual death of oldTrek.
 
Why do you assume that people who think Dollhouse is crap do so because they dislike Whedon? I've never seen Angel or Buffy, I loved Firefly and I hate Dollhouse with a passion. What does that say about me?
 
Roger Wilco said:
Why do you assume that people who think Dollhouse is crap do so because they dislike Whedon?
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I don't, and I didn't say that.

I'm enjoying the show so far, but it's far from his best work at this point and I shan't be surprised if it doesn't last (okay, at this point no one will be).
 
^^

You saw Dodgeball, right? Alan was in that. Also, he was the mocap and voice actor for "Sonny" in I, Robot. And he was "Watt" in A Knight's Tale. If you don't watch anything by Joss, then using those as references would be pointless.

No idea about Felicia, other than her appearances in Buffy and as the female lead in Dr. Horrible's Sing-along Blog; she also has her own ongoing web series called The Guild.
 
Ptrope said:
^^

You saw Dodgeball, right? Alan was in that. Also, he was the mocap and voice actor for "Sonny" in I, Robot. And he was "Watt" in A Knight's Tale. If you don't watch anything by Joss, then using those as references would be pointless.

No idea about Felicia, other than her appearances in Buffy and as the female lead in Dr. Horrible's Sing-along Blog; she also has her own ongoing web series called The Guild.
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He was in Firefly, right? And the guy in that Dish network commercial where the bank is being robbed and the other guy is programming his recorder with his phone. I think I know who you mean. I never saw more than a minute of a Knight's Tale.
 
Temis the Vorta said:
In any discussion of genre shows on network TV, let's not forget Fringe - which has been a notable success. That, and the fact that 2/3rds of all shows, regardless of genre, fail their first season makes me very skeptical of overly simplistic statements that sci fi can't survive on network TV, or that it has a tougher time doing so than all the cop shows, doctor shows, sitcoms and yes reality TV shows that also fail in droves.
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Good point. Fringe is an excellent example to put forth when disproving how networks don't support, or the "general public" does not get, genre shows. Because, as far as genre shows go, it doesn't get anymore sci-fi than this. They throw the kitchen sink at viewers: mind reading, reanimation, teleportation, multiverse, dreamscapes, monsters, computer programs that kill, bionics, people with "powers", shadow conspiracies, and on and on and on; all done with no minimum of pretty freaky on screen gore.

I would like to see Dollhouse stick around. It is a passable hour of television that was never quite good enough. Certainly not good enough to over come a Friday scheduling handicap. It has potential and has begun to show that potential. But the real test is, would I care if they pulled the plug right this second. And sadly, I'd have to say "no".
 
i am shocked that anyone is surprised by this news. i am shocked that some letter writing campaign wasn't taken up before the show aired because everyone should have seen this coming.

i have not enjoyed the show. at it's best, it has been mediocre. the cast doesn't gel for me. they all seem to be going through the motions. the stories aren't interesting. the action is lacking. the writing and delivery feels like someone trying to make a joss whedon show and failing.
 
Well, I have to agree on the major networks not giving new shows that actually come off as creative a chance. Just look at what NBC did to Kings, and that became one of my favorites shows after the premier...

Anywho, Jericho was able to get back on the air due to DVD sales and fan petitions but I'm not sure history can repeat itself since this is Fox we're talking about.

I'll watch the rest of the season, I hope it doesn't end on some cliffhanger.

As for Dushku being a "crap actress", I can't really agree with that. She may not be A-list but she hardly horrible. This is just a case of FOX being FOX. It seems shows like Fringe are the exception now for FOX and sci-fi, maybe it's the X-Files similarities...
 
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