"Dollhouse" probably cancelled - THX FOX

[Valandil]

http://www.scifiheaven.net/index.php/2009/04/10/dollhouse-cancellation-mystery-thickens/

Cancellation not so certain after all? Who knows at this stage.

 

[Thrall]

This is the problem right here. Why couldn't the show have been good to begin with? Why should any audience be expected to wait for something to maybe start getting good?

Why couldn't TNG be good for the first 3 seasons? Why did Star Trek fans always have to "wait for 3 season" for the shows to find their feet? Why do networks have to mess with shows and "improve" them?

The "talent" don't make shows in a vacuum they more often than not have to bend to the will of the execs. I'm not saying that's an excuse for poor shows all the time, but there has been a noticable improvement of Dollhouse since they got to the "untampered" episodes.

TNG's first two seasons were among the worst TV ever aired, Star Trek or otherwise. It did not deserve to continue but it did. That's the way it goes. I have no doubt that whether or not Dollhouse was good or not would have made a difference in it being canceled or renewed. All I was referring to was the idea that some fans, for some reason, are willing to invest their time into mediocrity. Network-tampered mediocrity, but mediocrity nonetheless If something isn't good, for whatever reason it may be, and people recognize that it isn't good, then why should it be allowed to run?

TNG is a different case though. It was one of very, very, very few genre shows on TV at the time so naturally any and all genre fans were going to watch it. It was also not on network TV. It was basically on what was free air time that most networks didn't use. So they were only accountable to the producers, not any network. That TV time all got bought up with the creation of CW, UPN, and The WB sadly. It also had one of the biggest name brands and one of the biggets cult followings around. So, no matter how bad the writing could potentially be, they were in a win/win situation.

 

[Gregsmack]

^ Interesting. I didn't know that. Guess they really did get lucky -- us too. Where would we be today without TNG?

 

[wamdue]

excuse me if im not exactly surprised by the news that FOX is messing Joss around.

 

[sportzkid]

Why couldn't TNG be good for the first 3 seasons? Why did Star Trek fans always have to "wait for 3 season" for the shows to find their feet? Why do networks have to mess with shows and "improve" them?

The "talent" don't make shows in a vacuum they more often than not have to bend to the will of the execs. I'm not saying that's an excuse for poor shows all the time, but there has been a noticable improvement of Dollhouse since they got to the "untampered" episodes.

TNG's first two seasons were among the worst TV ever aired, Star Trek or otherwise. It did not deserve to continue but it did. That's the way it goes. I have no doubt that whether or not Dollhouse was good or not would have made a difference in it being canceled or renewed. All I was referring to was the idea that some fans, for some reason, are willing to invest their time into mediocrity. Network-tampered mediocrity, but mediocrity nonetheless If something isn't good, for whatever reason it may be, and people recognize that it isn't good, then why should it be allowed to run?

TNG is a different case though. It was one of very, very, very few genre shows on TV at the time so naturally any and all genre fans were going to watch it. It was also not on network TV. It was basically on what was free air time that most networks didn't use. So they were only accountable to the producers, not any network. That TV time all got bought up with the creation of CW, UPN, and The WB sadly. It also had one of the biggest name brands and one of the biggets cult followings around. So, no matter how bad the writing could potentially be, they were in a win/win situation.

True, syndication of shows is pretty rare now, which is how TNG and Babylon 5 made it. I can't even name any syndicated shows that are on any more.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, alternative explanations of this are beginning to surface - see the report over at AICN.

Talking about this sort of thing to folks who don't like Whedon is just like trying to discuss music with the tone deaf - pointless and a waste of time that could be spent on music.

 

[BenRoethig]

If it does get canceled, what's success rate for mid-season premieres? Most of the time, they're meant as fillers.

 

[Sheep]

Why should Joss blame himself?

For the crap premise, the crap scripts and the crap lead actress?

Amen to the last one. Eliza Dushku might be nice to look at but she's up there with Milo Ventimiglia and Hayden Panettiere in acting ability. Watching any of them try to emote is literally painful.

 

[SinglePurpose]

Talking about this sort of thing to folks who don't like Whedon is just like trying to discuss music with the tone deaf - pointless and a waste of time that could be spent on music.

I'm a big Whedon fan but crap this statement is arrogant.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Why should Joss blame himself?

For the crap premise, the crap scripts and the crap lead actress?

Amen to the last one. Eliza Dushku might be nice to look at but she's up there with Milo Ventimiglia and Hayden Panettiere in acting ability. Watching any of them try to emote is literally painful.

Hmmm, is there any causal relationship between bad acting and unusual last names?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Talking about this sort of thing to folks who don't like Whedon is just like trying to discuss music with the tone deaf - pointless and a waste of time that could be spent on music.

I'm a big Whedon fan but crap this statement is arrogant.

I am arrogant. That's not illegal and it's certainly not problematic for me, especially when I'm telling the truth as I see it.

 

[Skywalker]

That's too bad. It started out slow, but it was starting to get a bit better. Unfortunately, Dollhouse never really felt "Jossy" to me. Didn't he just do this as a favor to Eliza Dushku, after they came up with the idea over lunch (or something like that)? The Friday night death slot didn't help, but neither did the fact that the main character was actually one of the least compelling. I was far more interested in Victor and Sierra than I ever was in Echo.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Didn't he just do this as a favor to Eliza Dushku, after they came up with the idea over lunch (or something like that)?

Depends on which end of the telescope you look through - it can easily be said that Dushku was doing Whedon a favor. FOX approached her wanting to develop a new TV series around her, and she went to Whedon to create it for her. As others have pointed out, he was doing a whole lot of writing comic books at the time.

"Dollhouse" is not a very accessible show - I'd expect that most people who looked at it would say pretty quickly "why should I give a crap about any of these people? Who am I supposed to care about, and what the fuck is going on?" and quite reasonably tune right out. I'm a little surprised that FOX bought into the premise, a little surprised that Whedon thought it was workable on broadcast TV, and I'll be a lot surprised if it lasts much longer.

 

[Skywalker]

Didn't he just do this as a favor to Eliza Dushku, after they came up with the idea over lunch (or something like that)?

Depends on which end of the telescope you look through - it can easily be said that Dushku was doing Whedon a favor. FOX approached her wanting to develop a new TV series around her, and she went to Whedon to create it for her. As others have pointed out, he was doing a whole lot of writing comic books at the time.

Ah, thank you. I didn't know the whole story.

Not that there's anything wrong with writing comic books.

 

[BlackestPanther]

Talking about this sort of thing to folks who like Whedon is just like trying to discuss polka music with the people who actually have TASTE in music - pointless and a waste of time because polka ain't really music

Fixed that for you.

You're welcome.

 

[roguephoenix]

fox and joss is never a good mix. however, eliza is contracted with fox so the only way a joss project would fly is if eliza was not part of it or if she gets out of her contract with fox development.

kind of knew it was really over when tamoh is doing a pilot for scifi for another show.

very sad, cause i actually liked the show.

 

[Lindley]

Oh well. I guess Saint Joss isn't infallible and has to return to the realm of comics where his flock, in between denouncing the rest of us for not appreciating his "genius", will buy every issue of his books. So very sad.

But the zealous Whedonites will never admit that their god has feet of clay.

You two, and those like you, have got to have seen all the ambivalence over this show from fans and nonfans alike. It's everywhere. Some of us want to like it, some of us don't care, and some of us simply don't like it. Even those who say "it's improving" fully admit it's nowhere near the same class as the previous "big three" at this point.

But no one is behaving the way you claim, at least around here. That much is blatantly obvious from this very thread. So one wonders what you expect such inflammatory statements to do for your image. You think anyone cares about the opinions of the guy tilting at windmills?

 

[BigFoot]

While I'm still pissed at Fox for cancelling Firefly, I can't really blame them if they're really gonna cancel Dollhouse.

 

[BlackestPanther]

People like us lose every time a genre show is cancelled.

 

[Aragorn]

The premise of the show was severely flawed. It might sound cool at first, but there are no legs to sustain it. NBC had a short-lived show like this -- it was called My Own Worst Enemy.