I'm already enjoying it more than I ever did "Angel," which to me is the weakest of Whedon's shows. That said, it's a good deal less accessible.
Dollhouse: "Needs" (1x08)
- Thread starter tharpdevenport
- Start date
On the other hand Angel was my favourite, but it is becoming very interesting and I can't wait to see where it's going.
I have two problems with the 'test'. One is that, yes, we learned a few things about the people behind the dolls, but the dolls are unable to retain said knowledge. They're right back where they started from. It was looking like Echo, at least, was retaining some things from each of her implanted personalities but, if I understand things correctly, all that's gone now as well. That's why I felt cheated.
My other problem is the B.S. ad campaign for this episode, which I have of course previously pointed out is often designed to fool you into watching. This one hurt, though, because it was hyped as "the one that changes everything" or "the one that you don't wanna miss." Well, it's true that the detective got that message from Echo there at the end, but even that could've been tacked on at the end of LAST WEEK'S show. Otherwise, NOTHING changed. In fact, with the memory wipe this go-round, we've effectively regressed. We were given four distinct characters among all the blank slates, but now we're being told that none of it mattered? Why waste so much screen time on stuff that doesn't matter? We get enough of that from FOX's endless line of "reality television."
I'm hoping it'll all become clear eventually but, as of right now, I'm as much in the dark as Echo is by 10:00 (EST) each week.
The opening [obviously a] dream sequence featuring echo being hot was nice.
Aside from that though, below average. I guess amnesiac Caroline stupidly gong back into the Dollhouse to free them all, while an utterly retarded tactical plan, is at least consistent with the PETA idiot we saw earlier.
I can't imagine anyone could be so hung up on Sierra that they'd spend millions to make her want them to bang her. Kind of defeats part of the purpose of these 'dolls' to have one that's just... not very pretty.
The let them run free and find closure plot was lacking sense. What if her plan instead was to go back in, grab surveillance tape, maybe some technology from the mindwipe chair.... the handler handbook (they have to have some training material for those guys) or whatever else and give it to a TV station or something? I guess they must've been tracking them somehow waiting to intervene, especially since they quite easily found the girl with the dead child and the hiding doll lovebirds. Then again, they didn't even realize Echo was running loose in the Dollhouse until after they saw her on the security camera.
I rewatched Buffy Season 1 this week, and even that 12 episode run (not the show's finest) is far superior to Dollhouse. The plots weren't the greatest, but the characters are mostly likable and funny, and the dialog is sharp. Dollhouse is bland actors with bland dialog doing bland things.
Aside from that though, below average. I guess amnesiac Caroline stupidly gong back into the Dollhouse to free them all, while an utterly retarded tactical plan, is at least consistent with the PETA idiot we saw earlier.
I can't imagine anyone could be so hung up on Sierra that they'd spend millions to make her want them to bang her. Kind of defeats part of the purpose of these 'dolls' to have one that's just... not very pretty.
The let them run free and find closure plot was lacking sense. What if her plan instead was to go back in, grab surveillance tape, maybe some technology from the mindwipe chair.... the handler handbook (they have to have some training material for those guys) or whatever else and give it to a TV station or something? I guess they must've been tracking them somehow waiting to intervene, especially since they quite easily found the girl with the dead child and the hiding doll lovebirds. Then again, they didn't even realize Echo was running loose in the Dollhouse until after they saw her on the security camera.
I rewatched Buffy Season 1 this week, and even that 12 episode run (not the show's finest) is far superior to Dollhouse. The plots weren't the greatest, but the characters are mostly likable and funny, and the dialog is sharp. Dollhouse is bland actors with bland dialog doing bland things.
I had seen the promos for this ep and couldn't believe that they already would change the status quo that much 8 episodes into the show.
So when I read the episode title, I knew they were gonna pull a Matrix on the dolls, i. e. temporarely give them what they need in order to maintain control over the system.
Yet somehow I still really wanted them to get out which made the whole thing even more hard to watch.
Which is a good thing, of course.
So when I read the episode title, I knew they were gonna pull a Matrix on the dolls, i. e. temporarely give them what they need in order to maintain control over the system.
Yet somehow I still really wanted them to get out which made the whole thing even more hard to watch.
Which is a good thing, of course.
I'm sorry, but I just can't get over how sick the concept of this "dollhouse" is, and I find it completly implausible that such an organisation could exist without the public knowing about it (and no, that urban legend stuff didn't change that), especially with supposedly decent people like the doctor and Echo's handler working there - at least the show's producers are obviously trying to make us like them. Not all well-connected millionaires are ruthless assholes, you know... Someone would blow the whistle, and since we've had no indication that the society in that show is any different from ours I just can't believe there wouldn't be an enormous public outcry about it.
Then I'm glad I didn't see any ads. They don't show the 'next week on' thingy here after the episode. And the rest of the week I don't tune into Fox much (or tv in general actually nowadays; I turn on the tv for Lost and Dollhouse and apart from that it's more on a "if I happen to turn it on and there's something on that interests me, I keep watching" basis).
I think that those in charge, such as Dewitt and maybe Topher to some extent, as a result of the last 2 episodes, have started to realize that what is going on is not exactly morally excusable. They were not in control of themselves due to that drug (or was it a microbe) and they didn't like it. THEN they faced Caroline/Echo who was unhappy and upset at not being able to remember who she was or much of her former life.
The show is getting deeper. They have addressed what could happen to people (especially women) who are not in control of themselves enough to be able to defend themselves.
If some people have horrific things happen to them, like losing a child, that they can't face, becoming a doll for a time might seem like a better solution than suicide. After all, it's only for a certain amount of time, right? There's a contract involved so it's all above board and safe, right?
The show is getting deeper. They have addressed what could happen to people (especially women) who are not in control of themselves enough to be able to defend themselves.
If some people have horrific things happen to them, like losing a child, that they can't face, becoming a doll for a time might seem like a better solution than suicide. After all, it's only for a certain amount of time, right? There's a contract involved so it's all above board and safe, right?
We've got slavery right now (young girls being kidnapped and rented out for years by pimps) in this country and not only do most people not know about it, but those who do know aren't raising any enormous public outcry. They'll watch a 30 minute show about it on MSNBC, think "that really sucks," and then flip over to Letterman to end their night with some laughs.
The society in this show ISN'T any different from ours. If people in real life could abide sex slaves (and they do), then nobody in real life would give a damn about some "Dollhouse" where rich people paid supposed volunteers for some make believe-time.
As for "Needs," if it weren't a Whedon show I'd assume this was a reset button. But it is, so I don't (we don't even have any evidence that Dr. Fred's "give them what they need" idea worked). I think we'll find over the next few episodes that the choices made in this episode DID change everything.
The world is like that. Lots of sick stuff going on. Prostitution, slavery and the incarceration and violation of the innocent are actually going on in this country every day.
The "suspension of disbelief" involved in the show is the existence of this perfected technology. That's quite a bit to swallow, but no more than vampires organizing to bring about Armageddon on average of once a year - and I loved that series.
The extent to which the dolls other than Echo are becoming characters whom I like and whose stories I care about is the reason I'm becoming more engaged by this. "Victor" was nothing but a stunt and a throwaway three or four weeks ago (as far as I was concerned) now I'm moved by and am rooting for him.
That kind of thing is one of the two main reasons I'm such a WheDrone.
It's kind of interesting because it's kind of a throwback to the episodic television of yore. Like it didn't really matter what happened week-to-week on say Buck Rogers, The A-Team, Knight Rider, or today with say The Simpsons. Things happened but they were rarely if ever mentioned again so it's not really any different, the subversive part of this show is that they actually force you to acknowledge it.
The show could benefit EXTREMELY from two things:
Re-writing, plotting and filming of the first five episodes.
A new composer, or composers (shows like "Dynasty" and "Star Trek: TNG" used to have multiple composers), and a rescoring of some, if not all the first season.
These two happening could put this series on a whole other level and keep me going for a second season.
Re-writing, plotting and filming of the first five episodes.
A new composer, or composers (shows like "Dynasty" and "Star Trek: TNG" used to have multiple composers), and a rescoring of some, if not all the first season.
These two happening could put this series on a whole other level and keep me going for a second season.
Yeah, I'm confused over the various suspension of disbelief comments in all the threads for this series. People can buy that they have the technology to completely and totally rewrite a person's memories and personality either from scratch or by mixing and matching records of actual people... but the rest of it is what they have trouble with?
I don't mean to be pickin' a fight or anything... I just genuinely find it confusing that people can buy the impossible stuff in the show and have trouble with the bits that are merely somewhat implausible (and for TV, downright normal).
That's because suspension of disbelief for science fiction means you get a free pass (generally) on the premise but you still have to play by the rules on the other stuff. You'll buy Superman surviving a fall off a skyscraper but you'll cry foul when Lois does. Accepting one impossible premise doesn't mean you can get away with everything else.
Ok, but I don't have to watch a show where such slaves casually get raped numerous times every episode and the slave holders/pimps are shown in a sympathetic light.
That's science fiction. I don't necessarily believe that technology is possible, I just accept it as the premise of the show.
But by general television standards, the things that people calling out Dollhouse for aren't that remarkable. It would be like complaining that normal people in Buffy were unaware of all the vamps everywhere, it's just as much a component of the premise.
No, my criticism is more comparable to people complaining about exaggarated violence in a specific tv-show.
Similar threads
