Thread for the episode airing in 30 minutes.
Dollhouse: "Needs" (1x08)
- Thread starter tharpdevenport
- Start date
SPOILDERS
Goddamn, will Topher ever say anything that doesn't suck and show him to be a bad actor? Doesn't appear like it.
Again, 20 Dollhouses world wide and they don't know what to fucking do?
I'd liek to say it was clever about them knowing the four were going to escape, but really, with all of Dollhouse's security, it wasnt' a surprise at all. Considering this is a "test", this seems to be terrible lying on the part of the advertising making us think this was the "event" we were waiting for. I feel a little pissed. And cheated.
I bet -- I just bet Victor is the one who put Searra in the Dollhouse, he was probably an Active on a mission, she got in the way, he tried to get her out, the explosion occured, she got injured, he brought her to te Dollhouse people, they had her reported as dead, and got themselves a new Doll. After typing that later on Searra and Victor confront a guy about putting her there, but considering the mind fuck Dollouse gives us, and that this was a test, I can't be sure he isn't a Doll. Fuck.
The show desperately needs a composer change.
I want to say "Above average", but still my gut and feelign about the show can't give it that rating. It keeps floating on "Average" even though the idea would have been great (if redone a little) for like a later season epsidoe of BTVS.
Goddamn, will Topher ever say anything that doesn't suck and show him to be a bad actor? Doesn't appear like it.
Again, 20 Dollhouses world wide and they don't know what to fucking do?
I'd liek to say it was clever about them knowing the four were going to escape, but really, with all of Dollhouse's security, it wasnt' a surprise at all. Considering this is a "test", this seems to be terrible lying on the part of the advertising making us think this was the "event" we were waiting for. I feel a little pissed. And cheated.
I bet -- I just bet Victor is the one who put Searra in the Dollhouse, he was probably an Active on a mission, she got in the way, he tried to get her out, the explosion occured, she got injured, he brought her to te Dollhouse people, they had her reported as dead, and got themselves a new Doll. After typing that later on Searra and Victor confront a guy about putting her there, but considering the mind fuck Dollouse gives us, and that this was a test, I can't be sure he isn't a Doll. Fuck.
The show desperately needs a composer change.
I want to say "Above average", but still my gut and feelign about the show can't give it that rating. It keeps floating on "Average" even though the idea would have been great (if redone a little) for like a later season epsidoe of BTVS.
Above average, teetering on just plain average. Would've called this one an "excellent" if not for the big reset at the end.... AGAIN!!! I should know better than to trust the previews for these eps., but the networks always find a way to sucker me in. I was really getting involved with each of the four "actives" in this one, observing as their distinct personalities surfaced.... but apparently I was never supposed to?! Why must you tease me, Joss? 
I'm enjoying this show, but it's just not going to work.
It's about a group of people who are prisoners, who don't know they're prisoners, and we're continually being asked to concern ourselves with the anxieties of the rather brittle group of fractional people who keep them prisoners. Even the most sympathetic among these keepers are unwilling to rebel in any way against the house.
There's probably stuff there worth digging into; as I say, I'm finding it increasingly fascinating. But how many viewers will bother? And honestly, why should they?
It's about a group of people who are prisoners, who don't know they're prisoners, and we're continually being asked to concern ourselves with the anxieties of the rather brittle group of fractional people who keep them prisoners. Even the most sympathetic among these keepers are unwilling to rebel in any way against the house.
There's probably stuff there worth digging into; as I say, I'm finding it increasingly fascinating. But how many viewers will bother? And honestly, why should they?
Interesting premise - to wake up in that environment without memories: like a good Twilight Zone. And they had fun with it with some amusing lines (I really missed having humor in the early eps): "Run... strategically." "I like pancakes / We're all gonna die."
If last week was their "The Naked Time," this had a little "Return of the Archons" feel at the beginning. But they went beyond it. In fact, it felt like the best parts of two or three episodes smoothly combined, which was a good thing.
Caroline was a lot more with-it and heroic this week compared to the "PETA-type" we saw last one, but still caring and trying to set things free. Continuing to learn more about the other three was good as well. The timing on the reveal of Mellie's daughter seemed perfect to me ("the pain they're trying to escape," and it cut to her, and I got it a second before they showed the tombstones).
For a moment, I was afraid that they were going to go with "this was all a simulation" as the dolls were heading outside, but they found a good "real-world" solution that actually made some sense (and even had a little The Prisoner vibe).
I was thinking "Average" for the first half or so when it just looked like a compilation of somewhat-familiar action ideas, but the conclusion was more-meaningful and satisfying than I was expecting, so "Above Average." Naturally, now that I'm really liking the show, I expect Fox to cancel it....
If last week was their "The Naked Time," this had a little "Return of the Archons" feel at the beginning. But they went beyond it. In fact, it felt like the best parts of two or three episodes smoothly combined, which was a good thing.
Caroline was a lot more with-it and heroic this week compared to the "PETA-type" we saw last one, but still caring and trying to set things free. Continuing to learn more about the other three was good as well. The timing on the reveal of Mellie's daughter seemed perfect to me ("the pain they're trying to escape," and it cut to her, and I got it a second before they showed the tombstones).
For a moment, I was afraid that they were going to go with "this was all a simulation" as the dolls were heading outside, but they found a good "real-world" solution that actually made some sense (and even had a little The Prisoner vibe).
I was thinking "Average" for the first half or so when it just looked like a compilation of somewhat-familiar action ideas, but the conclusion was more-meaningful and satisfying than I was expecting, so "Above Average." Naturally, now that I'm really liking the show, I expect Fox to cancel it....
I thought it was interesting to know more about how these "dolls" came to be in the Dollhouse. It seems like a couple of them wanted to have a brain wipe because they couldn't live with the mental pain they were in. But Sierra was sold out by someone who wished her harm (and still does, apparently). They just didn't realize that they would be raped repeatedly. They supposedly have contracts, but what is the incentive for the Dollhouse to abide by them? Maybe the contract is filed with the "doll's" lawyer. Anyway, it's an interesting concept and current, what with people using computers hooked up to their brains in real life. Or at least on House. 
Yeah, I've been hoping that either he'd grow on me or the portrayal would shift slightly, but I can't really feel the geek-love that I do for some similar types.
I like the idea that there's a decades-old network of 'houses out there to help suspend disbelief, but I get the feeling that this one is "special" (and that that'll probably become a more-significant aspect before too long).
We're pretty much on the same page about that. While it might still catch on through word of mouth, I'll consider it a minor victory if all of the first(/only?) season gets aired.
Yeah, I find myself pretty much right there with you guys. Still.... excluding the 3 unaired episodes that saw their first release on the DVD.... Firefly only made it to 11 shows in its original run. Dollhouse already stands at 8. Just four more, and you've got a minor victory right there.
And if he's telling the truth, DeWitt is lying.
Or DeWitt was lied to.
Who the hell do all these people work for, anyway? Do they know?
Dominic seems to be somewhat chastised this week.
Dominic seems to be somewhat chastised this week.
I gave it an above average. Some of you consider the 'test' to be a cop out, but I was glad it worked out the way it did. It all went way too easy for it to be the real thing. If it would've been, that wouldn't have made sense to me at all. And in this way we learned some more about the real people behind the dolls, so it wasn't a complete reset. We can be sure that we will see more of the real dolls in the future (assuming the series has a future).
There actually was a brief moment where I liked Topher's (well, his actor's) acting. When Echo is pointing a gun at him and asking him about what he's doing to the dolls there's this brief flash of genuine geeky love for his work coming through his anxiety. It was there very subtle for a brief moment, before he went over the top again. Ah well...
By now I'm entertained enough to sit this season out, but it's still not so special that I would mourn a lack of a second season. But things are changing for the better these last few weeks, so perhaps I change my mind on that once the end (of the season) is there. If they do cancel the show after this season, I at least hope that there's some sense of closure though.
There actually was a brief moment where I liked Topher's (well, his actor's) acting. When Echo is pointing a gun at him and asking him about what he's doing to the dolls there's this brief flash of genuine geeky love for his work coming through his anxiety. It was there very subtle for a brief moment, before he went over the top again. Ah well...
By now I'm entertained enough to sit this season out, but it's still not so special that I would mourn a lack of a second season. But things are changing for the better these last few weeks, so perhaps I change my mind on that once the end (of the season) is there. If they do cancel the show after this season, I at least hope that there's some sense of closure though.
i wonder if Dr. Saunders plays a larger role in the history of the Dollhouse. But anyways, I'm guessing whatever sinister company they are working for, which I think is the Rossum Corporation? Something will be revealed to DeWitt and this particular Dollhouse will break away and go rogue.
Stupid, but not as stupid as the trailer for the episode. Lots of interesting stuff beneath the surface, but I don't think interesting themes can sustain unsympathetic characters and -- I'm not sure even sure what adjective to use the describe the plot of this episode.
I was really hoping Echo would have shot Topher. Or forced his head down into the chair and fucked his brain up. Either way, have the test horribly backfire, with real consequences for the Dollhouse as a whole, if not for Echo personally.
Other than that, I pretty much despised the episode. The whole "Sierra was forced into the Dollhouse to be a sex slave" angle is disturbing. November grieving for her dead daughter was interesting and raises a lot of questions, but I don't foresee them being answered.
I wonder when Ballard is going to discover that "Millie" was a Doll.
Other than that, I pretty much despised the episode. The whole "Sierra was forced into the Dollhouse to be a sex slave" angle is disturbing. November grieving for her dead daughter was interesting and raises a lot of questions, but I don't foresee them being answered.
I wonder when Ballard is going to discover that "Millie" was a Doll.
Echo called Ballard from within the Dollhouse. I'm guessing that will have consequences.
Why not? I'm confident that they are planning to show us more of the real personalities of the dolls in the future.
I have to say that I am actually starting to enjoy this show a bit - something that I couldn't say during the early, network-meddling episodes. I had the hardest time finding anything to grasp onto when I watched - something to care about, something to like. But now that we're starting to get glimpses of Caroline and the other actives' real lives, they are starting to become more interesting.
My biggest issues with the series were the characters. The concept of the Dollhouse is interesting. However, I find it incredibly difficult to maintain a weekly series about a group of characters who have no identity and become new people every week. There's no consistency or continuity about the characters that make an audience relate to them, and whatever experiences that character undergoes ends up getting erased - the ultimate reset button. So how are these people supposed to become compelling or likeable? The people running the dollhouse (the only characters who are consistent week-to-week) certainly come off as very cold and unlikeable, and Topher in particular needs to have his ass kicked.
These issues really plagued the first several episodes. But the writing seems to be getting stronger. We're getting more bits and pieces of these characters' lives. I still don't like all the characters but some of them seem more complex than at first glance. There's a chance this show could go to some interesting places (and this is Joss Whedon we're talking about, so I imagine he does have some great ideas). I sincerely doubt this show will get a second season, but I would be willing to watch it if the quality keeps improving.
My biggest issues with the series were the characters. The concept of the Dollhouse is interesting. However, I find it incredibly difficult to maintain a weekly series about a group of characters who have no identity and become new people every week. There's no consistency or continuity about the characters that make an audience relate to them, and whatever experiences that character undergoes ends up getting erased - the ultimate reset button. So how are these people supposed to become compelling or likeable? The people running the dollhouse (the only characters who are consistent week-to-week) certainly come off as very cold and unlikeable, and Topher in particular needs to have his ass kicked.
These issues really plagued the first several episodes. But the writing seems to be getting stronger. We're getting more bits and pieces of these characters' lives. I still don't like all the characters but some of them seem more complex than at first glance. There's a chance this show could go to some interesting places (and this is Joss Whedon we're talking about, so I imagine he does have some great ideas). I sincerely doubt this show will get a second season, but I would be willing to watch it if the quality keeps improving.
It would be tricky for any show to pull this off (can't think of any that have tried, at least not with so many characters at once), but there is a way to do this. You decide that despite their "amnesia," all the characters have core personalities that are not entirely suppressed and can be glimpsed if the audience watches for it; and you hire only the most talented actors possible, because this premise throws an unusual percentage of the burden for conveying the characters on the actors. The writers won't be able to help out as much as they usually can and should.
And then you pray that the audience is paying enough attention that they get what's going on, and they aren't petting the dog, eating cheetos, and yakking on the phone while watching the show, like people usually do.
The only example I can think of where this kind of thing has been done is in amnesia-based stories like John Doe. The character isn't a blank slate, but does have a personality of some sort. It's just muted because they don't know who they are and how they should act. And the audience doesn't depend only on sympathy for the character - there's also the "who am I?" mystery to keep them engaged.
Another close example: My Own Worst Enemy, which didn't survive long but they had the right basic idea casting Christian Slater as the lead role. An actor with talent and screen presence like that is what's required for a story like this.
And if this sort of thing is attempted, the core personality has to be a strong one - not a weepy, whiny little victim but someone with an undercurrent of a forceful persona, maybe even a dangerous one. Otherwise the cheeto-eaters will miss it entirely.
Following up the dangerous-personality notion, what if every person in the Dollhouse were a repentant killer or otherwise very bad person. Not a boo-hoo animal rights activist - let's not sugar-coat this or try to play into bleeding heart liberal sympathies. These people were evil in their past lives, which would perfectly explain why mind-wipe might be a palatable option. They came to the point in their lives when they realized they were gutter scum, and had to do something radical to change themselves. Maybe they were so completely damaged as individuals that becoming dolls is the only way to be a semblance of a decent human being.
Then the tension is not "when will they escape" but "oh no, what if they escape?!?" The dolls should not be the victims; it's so much more interesting if they were the threat. Take that premise, cast people of Christian Slater's acting caliber, and I think you might have something worth watching.
Personally I thought this was the best one yet, so it merited an Excellent. That's not to say it lived up to the best of Buffy, Angel or Firefly, but it seemed to be better than the previous 2, which I thought were good.
Similar threads
