• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Dollhouse cancelled after 13!

[
I'm not really sure I can agree with that.
Oh? Then can you give me a few examples of people fans who disliked and/or are ambivalent to his previous series which liked Dollhouse?

There may be some of these in time, no doubt (as noted, my prophetic abilities are worthless), but I got the impression that currently the show was defended by some Whedoniacs, disliked by others and otherwise not that greatly seen.
 
I believe Jimmy Bob just up-thread is your first example....

It shouldn't be a surprise that those who liked his previous work represent a significant portion of the audience, however. That's just common sense.
 
However, it's disengenuous to say people who watched the first few episodes are totally uninformed. A series does intend to hook people from the first episode on, so while maybe Dollhouse is one of those innumerable shows fans insist got better later on, they can fairly say that didn't start out at all well.
No its not.
What is diengenuous is assuming one has enough understanding of something(a show in this case) when they've only seen a few snap shots(ie episodes).

Dollhouse is more than a few snap shots. The show is one that comprises the entirety of its parts to create the bigger picture.

I've heard people say too similar a thing about LOST. Sorry, but your opinion is uninformed when you admit to only watching a few episodes. You're(not you per se) were either too impatient or too proud to watch Dollhouse unfold so don't then say its fate is justified when all other info you have is 2nd/3rd hand about the show.

Just to retierate this isn't a complained aimed directly at Kegg. Its all encompasing of those who think that having seen 2-3 episodes and read a little about where the show is now that their opinion of the shows cancellation is valid. It's not cause their bais is still rooted in the eps they decided they didn't like for whatever reason.
 
It shouldn't be a surprise that those who liked his previous work represent a significant portion of the audience, however. That's just common sense.
But doesn't speak greatly to the show's longevity.

I believe Captain Craig's initial assertion is that it'll have a life on DVD because of its premise and how it executed it, which is independent of it having a life on DVD because it has Joss Whedon's name on the tin (which will certainly help, no doubt).

Time will show whether it's a Jeremiah or a Firefly, anyway.

And Craig, I stand by the statement that if someone has seen the first few episodes and think they suck, they're entitled to say those episodes suck. And since the first few episodes are frequently the basis by which a show lives or dies, definitely it was a problem for Dollhouse if these episodes sucked or not (again, not having seen them I aver to no opinion at all.)
 
This year I have four new shows to watch in the UK, Knight Rider, Defying Gravity, Dollhouse, and Flashforward. I knew about Knight Rider before I started watching it, found out that DG was dead on its arse after getting into the first episode, and now Dollhouse. Just one more left to kill, networks.

... and CSI keeps getting made...
 
It shouldn't be a surprise that those who liked his previous work represent a significant portion of the audience, however. That's just common sense.
But doesn't speak greatly to the show's longevity.

We already knew that. Serenity's box office proved well enough that no core fanbase is big enough on its own to represent commercial success; you need to rope in the mainstream to some degree.

At least Joss has a sense of humor about the whole thing. Here's what he had to say about getting a second season in the first place:
Fox forgot to cancel my show... Very awkward. They looked and said, 'Oh, this is our bad. We forgot to cancel your show. You're going to have to make more.'
 
And Craig, I stand by the statement that if someone has seen the first few episodes and think they suck, they're entitled to say those episodes suck.
I'm fine with that as well...if it ended there. Heck I wouldn't argue that the first few were below average to suck(re: Fox meddling as mentioned ad nausem in DH threads).

What isn't justified is saying cause I didn't like the 2-3 episodes I saw then the whole series did deserve to be cancelled. Regardless that I haven't seen any of the 11-12 episodes that followed. Their opinion is still only based on those 3 episodes NOT the 16 in total(as of now that have aired).
 
...how your fantasies can become a prison for other people who get trapped in them. Other shows offered escapism — Dollhouse gave us a commentary on how escapism can help create prisons for other people.

Bingo!

The show is subversive. I like subversive.
 
Considering this should have been cancelled mid first season, they should count their lucky stars they got a second.

This is Joss in poor, poor, piss poor form. I'll keep "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", "Angel", "Firefly" -- he can keep his "Dollhouse", thank you.
 
I really like the show, but was wondering how many more "Echo's imprint goes awry" plots they could really do.

Is there any word of whether Amy Acker will fearture in any of the last remaining episodes?
*Please, please, please*
 
I really like the show, but was wondering how many more "Echo's imprint goes awry" plots they could really do.

Is there any word of whether Amy Acker will fearture in any of the last remaining episodes?
*Please, please, please*
I believe she is supposed to show up towards the end.

...how your fantasies can become a prison for other people who get trapped in them. Other shows offered escapism — Dollhouse gave us a commentary on how escapism can help create prisons for other people.
Bingo!

The show is subversive. I like subversive.
Exactly. I like that in a way it makes you feel as guilty as the people who hire the Actives.

All of us have fantasies. If you had the money to create it, would you? Would it bother you that the people involved aren't really in control? Or would you just not care?
 
What isn't justified is saying cause I didn't like the 2-3 episodes I saw then the whole series did deserve to be cancelled. Regardless that I haven't seen any of the 11-12 episodes that followed. Their opinion is still only based on those 3 episodes NOT the 16 in total(as of now that have aired).

It deserves to be canceled because nobody is watching it---That's the yardstick by which all shows have been measured since TV was invented. And the biggest reason nobody is watching is most likely because viewers tuned in for the first few episodes, were seriously unimpressed, and moved on. So, saying that the early mediocre episodes are responsible for the show's cancellation seems pretty justified and reasonable to me.
 
[Soup-Nazi]NO! No Terminator for you![/Soup-Nazi]

Seriously, did you see the cartoon they made with the game engine?

Clearly 7 times more superior than the movie.

Which is why they need to bring back the Sarah Connor Chronicles.
 
What isn't justified is saying cause I didn't like the 2-3 episodes I saw then the whole series did deserve to be cancelled. Regardless that I haven't seen any of the 11-12 episodes that followed. Their opinion is still only based on those 3 episodes NOT the 16 in total(as of now that have aired).

It deserves to be canceled because nobody is watching it---That's the yardstick by which all shows have been measured since TV was invented.

Yeah, nothing "deserves to be cancelled" or "deserves to succeed" in some abstract sense.

The audience is always right.

The caveat is that there are many audiences, not one.

It's always a matter of matching the budget with the venue with the audience - there are shows that have run for ages on channels like SyFy that would be cancelled in a heartbeat on ABC. If two or three million people will watch a show religiously and the channel making it available can earn enough money doing so, then it "deserves to succeed." If a show pulls an audience of 20 million but is so expensive that the channel can't make back its costs by selling advertising, then it "deserves to be cancelled."
 
TV has moved past the old "show kind of sucks in the beginning but finds its voice later on". Stuff like Buffy, DS9, B5, TNG, even lesser known stuff like Farscape, all started off doing, a different kind of show, standalones for instance, before finding their 'voice' later. Maybe you liked the earlier iteration better, but you can't deny that a lot of these shows of the 90s and early 00s, started one way before 'growing' into something different, in terms of formatting, writing, production styles, etc.

These days, shows get off running, and generally are what they are from the beginning. Yes some people like early seasons better some like later seasons better, there are variances of opinion, but shows like The Wire, Sopranos, 24, LOST, BSG, generally are what they are from the get-go.

There's just too much "Wow, this first and second episode was awesome!!!" out there that people don't have the patience to sit through something that isn't engaging them 100% from the get-go. This is good or bad depending on your viewpoint. Bad because potentially good shows dont get the consideration and audience, or good because it sets a higher standard from the beginning, which is reached on a somewhat regular basis.
 
What isn't justified is saying cause I didn't like the 2-3 episodes I saw then the whole series did deserve to be cancelled. Regardless that I haven't seen any of the 11-12 episodes that followed. Their opinion is still only based on those 3 episodes NOT the 16 in total(as of now that have aired).

It deserves to be canceled because nobody is watching it---That's the yardstick by which all shows have been measured since TV was invented. And the biggest reason nobody is watching is most likely because viewers tuned in for the first few episodes, were seriously unimpressed, and moved on. So, saying that the early mediocre episodes are responsible for the show's cancellation seems pretty justified and reasonable to me.
Either I'm not explaining it or people aren't understanding what I've typed in response to others.

Saying it is crap BECAUSE the 3 episodes you saw weren't good is not the same as saying the WHOLE show stayed that way...crappy, thus deserving of cancellation.

Dollhouse had bad episodes at the start, no argument.
Saying ALL episodes were bad(when the person criticizing admits not seeing them) and thus saying the show deserved cancellation cause the WHOLE show was bad is the disengenous part. They don't really know the quality of those later shows.

People stopped watching it, yes. I'm fine with that yardstick. That is a studio justification but it still is separate from the quality the show began turning into which is what the detractors are harping on. Early season 1 quality vs where the quality is now when fewer people were there to see the evolution.
 
The big question is whether it would have done better if Fox had aired the original pilot rather than chopping it up.

Then again, if they hadn't chopped it up we wouldn't have gotten Epitaph One (or at least not the same way we did....)
 
The original pilot would have gotten the show to where it needed to be a lot quicker. I still think the Epitaph One story would have shown up, but probably in the second season.
 
The original pilot would have gotten the show to where it needed to be a lot quicker. I still think the Epitaph One story would have shown up, but probably in the second season.
Agreed. Also placing it on Friday night with a ratings dying TSCC in its first season with those reworked first 6 episodes. TSCC had lost its mojo by the time DH debuted.
Then keeping it on Friday night with a non-sequitor lead-in show with Brothers instead of the obvious pairing with Fringe. Even still on Friday a Fringe+DH combo are a better bet than Brothers.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top