Does the Star Wars series have only one good movie?

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I'm even fine with the glitter.

For the most part, I'm ok.. it's 1977 and your budget it stretched.. I'm ok with it. It's just not my favorite effect, and I know they could have fixed it even back then. And about the falcon's maneuver's: even if I couldn't justify it story wise- the music really adds excitment to the scene, and it hardly matters that he's not pulling any swan-dives. It's still awesome.

There is one other shot.. one that looks great in the original. Yet I think the SE actually makes it better. I'm not implying that George needed to change the shot.. because the original shot looks fantastic, but he did change it, and made it look better. It's when the Death Star is about to explode, and the Falcon, two X-wings and a Y-wing are fleeing get the hell out of there before it does. The original shot - the model-work therein - looks great. The special edition made it more dynamic by tilting the camera and moving it a bit during the shot, and the ships fly away in a more arc-like path toward the camera. It's so exciting. Still, nothing wrong with the original shot. Just pointing it out.

 

[cooleddie74]

I'm even fine with the glitter.

For the most part, I'm ok.. it's 1977 and your budget it stretched.. I'm ok with it. It's just not my favorite effect, and I know they could have fixed it even back then. And about the falcon's maneuver's: even if I couldn't justify it story wise- the music really adds excitment to the scene, and it hardly matters that he's not pulling any swan-dives. It's still awesome.

There is one other shot.. one that looks great in the original. Yet I think the SE actually makes it better. I'm not implying that George needed to change the shot.. because the original shot looks fantastic, but he did change it, and made it look better. It's when the Death Star is about to explode, and the Falcon, two X-wings and a Y-wing are fleeing get the hell out of there before it does. The original shot - the model-work therein - looks great. The special edition made it more dynamic by tilting the camera and moving it a bit during the shot, and the ships fly away in a more arc-like path toward the camera. It's so exciting. Still, nothing wrong with the original shot. Just pointing it out.

I completely agree. Both shots look amazing. Lucas didn't really need to change the original, but the new 1997 version is stupendous. The camera movements are even more realistic and dynamic. I've always wondered though: which Y-Wing pilot survived the battle? We know Luke and Wedge get out of there in one piece. But has a novel or Expanded Universe source ever identified the Y-Wing pilot who was luckier than hell? I'm fairly well-versed in SW lore but some details always escape me, especially if they're elaborated upon in EU materials. I've never been the biggest fan of the EU.

 

[Set Harth]

This guy is a possibility.

Lucas was freebasing pure, uncut Stupid the day he made that decision.

At least he can get uncut Stupid. The rest of us are stuck with the cut shit.

 

[J.T.B.]

[Ultra-Nerd Mode] I've analyzed that scene frame by frame and determined that the Star Destroyer footage appears to be the same as from the opening scene of the movie, but its mirror image. Hypothesis: They were seriously on a budget when making the movie, and this is one example of stretching it as far as possible. It's amazing they accomplished what they did. Frakking amazing. [/Ultra-Nerd Mode]

Yes, I believe that is correct. Besides being stretched for time and money on the model photography, the right rear quarter of the star destroyer model was unfinished to allow access to the internals, so shots that show that side are flipped.

I'd trade a hundred shots' worth of glitter just for Han to shoot first again. Lucas was freebasing pure, uncut Stupid the day he made that decision.

Worst change of the entire Saga. Makes adding Hayden Christensen's ghost to JEDI seem like the Rosebud sled reveal or James Caan at the toll booth in Jersey.

Yes, I agree completely but since we're talking about it there's another change that I hate but doesn't get talked about as much: The stupid Jawas-falling-off-a-beast gag as the heroes approach Mos Eiseley. Ben gives Luke the famous "wretched hive" warning, quite serious, setting up Mos Eiseley as a scary, dangerous place. So the heroes set off to enter this sketchy situation, with the viewer wondering what they might be getting themselves into. Is that a good place to insert a meaningless little piece of physical comedy? Completely undercutting the sense of foreboding they just set up? Honestly, how does a director makes that choice? I can't fathom it.



Justin

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I'd trade a hundred shots' worth of glitter just for Han to shoot first again. Lucas was freebasing pure, uncut Stupid the day he made that decision.

.

Well... that's the only negative critique of the man I've agreed with in the last fifteen years. I don't care for the Greedo thing myself. That's the only concession I'll make peeps. Take what you can get.

 

[sonak]

I'd trade a hundred shots' worth of glitter just for Han to shoot first again. Lucas was freebasing pure, uncut Stupid the day he made that decision.

Worst change of the entire Saga. Makes adding Hayden Christensen's ghost to JEDI seem like the Rosebud sled reveal or James Caan at the toll booth in Jersey.

what does "James Caan at the toll booth in Jersey" mean? Is this a reference to "Misery?" "Elf?"

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'd trade a hundred shots' worth of glitter just for Han to shoot first again. Lucas was freebasing pure, uncut Stupid the day he made that decision.

Worst change of the entire Saga. Makes adding Hayden Christensen's ghost to JEDI seem like the Rosebud sled reveal or James Caan at the toll booth in Jersey.

what does "James Caan at the toll booth in Jersey" mean? Is this a reference to "Misery?" "Elf?"

The Godfather, I think. But it's not Jersey, it's NY isn't it?

 

[stj]

Even the most ardent critics of the auteur theory wouldn't go so far as to seriously suggest that the director's influence in the collaborative effort is so negligible that one is interchangeable with anther.



Justin

The Empire Strikes Back and The Return of the Jedi really are one continuous story, even if a natural breaking point in the action is written in. Having different directors doesn't change that at all. Empire is the beginning of the Star Wars sequel and Return is the end. Beginning and end aren't interchangeable. Interchangeability was never at isssue, that's just a red herring. Empire is not a superior movie because Empire is not a complete story. Nothing is resolved, and the big reveal, let's face it, comes out of nowhere, even if you can now think, that's why Kenobi was living on Tattooine!

The point above about Attack of the Clones and Return of the Sith being a continuous story in the same fashion is correct. The incompleteness, the time spent on setup for Revenge, is, I think, one of the reasons that Attack is disliked by many.

As to the infamous Greedo shoots first controversy, the simple fact is that the guy who shoots Greedo first isn't the guy who's going to go save Luke. It was a mistake the first time around and Lucas was right to fix it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

In the original version of ANH, Han has a character arc that goes from scoundrel to hero. Han is even still going to split with a pallet full of cash while the Rebels are getting ready to attack the Death Star. Only afterwards does he has a change of heart.

 

[cooleddie74]

I'd trade a hundred shots' worth of glitter just for Han to shoot first again. Lucas was freebasing pure, uncut Stupid the day he made that decision.

Worst change of the entire Saga. Makes adding Hayden Christensen's ghost to JEDI seem like the Rosebud sled reveal or James Caan at the toll booth in Jersey.

what does "James Caan at the toll booth in Jersey" mean? Is this a reference to "Misery?" "Elf?"

The Godfather, I think. But it's not Jersey, it's NY isn't it?

Yeah it's a Godfather scene. The one where Sonny Corleone is shot to death at the toll booth. I always thought the toll booth was at the Jersey state line but I could be mistaken. Anyways, there ya go.

 

[J.T.B.]

The Empire Strikes Back and The Return of the Jedi really are one continuous story, even if a natural breaking point in the action is written in. Having different directors doesn't change that at all. Empire is the beginning of the Star Wars sequel and Return is the end. Beginning and end aren't interchangeable. Interchangeability was never at isssue, that's just a red herring. Empire is not a superior movie because Empire is not a complete story. Nothing is resolved, and the big reveal, let's face it, comes out of nowhere, even if you can now think, that's why Kenobi was living on Tattooine!

It's not a red herring; why raise the auteur theory if not to imply that a director's contributions do nothing to differentiate one film from another? The original claim was that ESB and RotJ are "one movie," not that they are the same story. My point was it is quite natural that people think of them as two movies, different directors being but one reason. None of the above speaks to that.

As to the infamous Greedo shoots first controversy, the simple fact is that the guy who shoots Greedo first isn't the guy who's going to go save Luke. It was a mistake the first time around and Lucas was right to fix it.

Yes, characters changing is something that interests audiences. Michael Corleone the Ivy League grad and war hero is not the guy who kills two criminal rivals and ends up an underworld boss. The cynical and politically indifferent Rick is not the same guy who helps Ilsa and Victor Laszlo escape the Nazis. Ethan Edwards the obsessed racist is not the same guy who picks Indian-bride Debbie up like a little girl and tells her they're going home. The violent and amoral Man with No Name who sets two gangs against each other for his own benefit is not the same guy who reunites Marisol with her family and helps them get out of town. If only these directors could go back and fix those "mistakes!"

Yeah it's a Godfather scene. The one where Sonny Corleone is shot to death at the toll booth. I always thought the toll booth was at the Jersey state line but I could be mistaken. Anyways, there ya go.

I think Connie and Carlo lived in a different town on Long Island, but anyway we know what you mean.



Justin

 

[Davros]

The only one that can stand on it's own and the one that changed the way movies are made and marketed is the original and best of the series and was simply called Star Wars. Some great drama and intrigue was included in Empire, but it is still only part of a story that wound up not getting any better.

 

[Dream]

I've always thought all the OT character looked their best in ESB. Luke, Han, Leia and Vader looked so much cooler. I don't know if it was the lighting, directing, or the clothes. Maybe it was just because ESB had double the budget of ANH.

 

[Mysterion]

I've always thought all the OT character looked their best in ESB. Luke, Han, Leia and Vader looked so much cooler. I don't know if it was the lighting, directing, or the clothes. Maybe it was just because ESB had double the budget of ANH.

they did look a lot better in ESB. And your avatar definitely suuports that about Leia/Carrie Fisher. I think she's never looked better than she did in that movie.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I've always thought all the OT character looked their best in ESB. Luke, Han, Leia and Vader looked so much cooler. I don't know if it was the lighting, directing, or the clothes. Maybe it was just because ESB had double the budget of ANH.

they did look a lot better in ESB. And your avatar definitely suuports that about Leia/Carrie Fisher. I think she's never looked better than she did in that movie.

I agree with both of you. Add to that a real chemistry between all of them. Empire is just the soul of Star Wars. But i also love the original film.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I've always thought all the OT character looked their best in ESB. Luke, Han, Leia and Vader looked so much cooler. I don't know if it was the lighting, directing, or the clothes. Maybe it was just because ESB had double the budget of ANH.

they did look a lot better in ESB. And your avatar definitely suuports that about Leia/Carrie Fisher. I think she's never looked better than she did in that movie.

I'll fourth all of this.

 

[cooleddie74]

I've always thought all the OT character looked their best in ESB. Luke, Han, Leia and Vader looked so much cooler. I don't know if it was the lighting, directing, or the clothes. Maybe it was just because ESB had double the budget of ANH.

they did look a lot better in ESB. And your avatar definitely suuports that about Leia/Carrie Fisher. I think she's never looked better than she did in that movie.

I'll fourth all of this.

It was a combination of all those factors you listed. Budget, set quality, directing finesse and wardrobe all markedly improved between ANH and ESB, and Carrie Fisher was never more physically beautiful or appealing as a character than she was in the second movie. The entire film was a technical step up from A NEW HOPE, and Lucas and Kershner benefitted from advances in shooting techniques that George himself helped pioneer in the original film.

 

[Dream]

ANH still looks really good when you remember that is was made about 30 years ago. I'm glad Lucas went to great pains to make it look as timeless as possible. Just compare it to Damnation Alley, a Sci-Fi movie that had almost twice the budget of ANH and was released during the same year by FOX.

 

[zakkrusz]

I love and own all 6 of them, personally.

 

[cooleddie74]

Same here...I own all six in two different formats. Even ATTACK OF THE CLONES has its inescapable charms.

The frustrating little turd.