Does "The Menagerie" still work now that we can watch "The Cage" by itself?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Jayson1, May 12, 2017.

  1. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    Yup.
     
  2. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Prax
    I like the Menagerie better I guess. Well, everything except that stupid wheelchair. Could the Talosians heal Pike then? Did Pike exchange his freedom for his health?
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    All the Talosians offered onscreen was the illusion of health. Which would be consistent with what they had to offer for Vina, although if they lied once, they'd do wisely to lie twice.

    Pike did exchange his health for his freedom, sort of: he lost the former and gained the latter. He's freer now than ever, able to do basically whatever he wishes while previously he was not.

    What the Talosians actually do with the two cripples remains unknown. Water them periodically and turn them to sunlight? Exploit their bodies in a scheme of creating a slave race (not gonna work!)? Exploit their minds in a scheme of X?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. KyleCampbell

    KyleCampbell Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    An interesting choice Pike had to make. Live trapped in his broken body or live an illusion fabricated by an alien species that keeps other species captive for their own entertainment.
     
  5. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Prax
    I think Arturis was a Talosian.
     
  6. Mad Jack Wolfe

    Mad Jack Wolfe Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    They both work satisfyingly as is. If you prefer one less, then don't watch it.
     
  7. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Maybe it was after The Naked Time that Spock decided to keep any of his emotions to himself and let not one smile break his lips! :rommie:
    JB
     
  8. ironnerd

    ironnerd Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2016
    Everything that happened after TOS ended is, in fact, an illusion projected by the Talosians. They are, sadly, dying from an unknown mental plague, which seems to coincide with Voyager, Enterprise, and Discovery.
     
    Classic_Colin and Spock's Barber like this.
  9. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Just the way Benny Russell wrote it when he invented the Trek universe back in the 50's.:) What people don't know is the Benny Russell who wrote this was actually a fictional character as well written by a Benny Russell from the 1970's in the "Galaxy Quest" universe who was inspired to write a show about a writer writing a show that is loosely based on his own favorite show!

    Jason
     
  10. WARLOCK1965

    WARLOCK1965 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    It shows spock loyalty to a former commander to help at all costs to himself and that shows how Vulcan see duty
     
  11. WARLOCK1965

    WARLOCK1965 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    True Vulcan ways
     
  12. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    I feel the only relevant way it might have depreciated is that they include much more of The Cage in it than is necessary to tell the story, which is slightly more noticeable now that The Cage is as available as any other episode

    But despite a bit of superfluous footage, it holds up very well, IMHO, and is still a favorite of mine. What I like the most is that while The Cage is a Pike episode, even with all the Cage footage, The Menagerie is a Spock episode, one that is pretty captivating actually. His loyalty here is a trait you just don't expect to see from him
     
  13. WARLOCK1965

    WARLOCK1965 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    The Cage stands because the was showing of possibles for equality of the races and sexs of humans and peaceful get a long with aliens races too. It was also the first time ever the a new plot to be ordered for any show to bad the network brass was not into the idea but the fans are
     
  14. TonyC

    TonyC Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Location:
    Deep Space Southern Ark.
    Well, it looks like we can say that the Talosians couldn't help her beyond what they did, however, IF she had went with Pike back to the ship, could Dr. Bryce, and 23rd C. medicine/surgery help her?

    The reason I ask is her spine. I had a 32 degree curve in my spine that NO ONE detected until it was too far gone to try to brace, so surgery was needed. For one reason or another, probably my use and dependence on steroids to breathe (I'm a chronic severe asthmatic) made my bones and spine weaker. I had to have a minimum bone density percentage to even have the surgery. (I had it, and my back has never been the same again. The rods in my spine (27) are from upper back to pelvic bone) and now I have to have a repair because some of them are growing into my bone.

    If spinal surgeons could get me 95% straight in my spine, could she be operated on, and her spine fixed, skin grafts for her, remove the humpback..or do you think she wouldn't be able to handle the procedures?

    I did remember she did die - sometime prior to 2320. (TOS novel: Burning Dreams)
     
  15. WARLOCK1965

    WARLOCK1965 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    She may have been afraid of being seen as she was and just wish to stay there because it was her home for so long
     
  16. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    Indeed - the apparent message of The Cage was that if you are ugly, you should hide yourself away and pretend you are pretty!
     
  17. WARLOCK1965

    WARLOCK1965 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    She may have been afraid of being seen as she was and just wish to stay there because it was her home for so long
    No she didn't know what it would be like and she could have been a afaid but she knew how it was on Talosians and it was her home ; safe home for her and home is were the heart is.
     
  18. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Location:
    City of the Fallen Angels
    Oooh, tacky. :lol:
     
  19. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Location:
    North Wales
    That's not what she said in the episode however. Just after Vina is revealed as a scarred, misshapen older woman she tells Pike:

    (emphasis mine)

    Nothing about Vina's fears for coping in a strange new world; everything about the way she looks and how the best course of action for the future is to hide her physical appearance.
     
  20. WARLOCK1965

    WARLOCK1965 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2017
    True but anyone truly know what might be in her mind. If she was to leave the planets she would be limited to the real world ; if she stays her dreams will be her real to her and in the dreams all that she would want to have is hers.