Does Starfleet only use Galaxys Now?

[Christopher]

"Encounter at Farpoint" contains no mention of the Enterprise being the first Galaxy-class ship. On the contrary, when Riker asks the ensign for directions, she replies, "You must be new to these Galaxy-class starships, sir" (emphasis added), suggesting there's already more than one of them.

"Yesterday's Enterprise" does say the E-D was "the first Galaxy-class warship built by the Federation," but as Idran says, that's an alternate timeline.

 

[captcalhoun]

that could only mean that the original Galaxy class ships weren't built as warships.

yeah, that's a bit of a stretch, but wth...

 

[MatthiasRussell]

There were mentions of all the Galaxies at the end of Endgame. There was only one in the fleet, ironically it was the Challenger. Similarly, I don't believe you ever saw more than half a dozen at a time in ds9.

Even IF the tng pilot said the D was the first galaxy, I don't buy it. Lets not forget Yamato was also given 2 different registry numbers in the show so mistakes are made. I also believe it was started Yamato was launched before Enterprise. The precedent has also been set that the first ship of a class shares the name of the class.

I loved in Encounter at Farpoint when a crewmen is almost shocked Riker had never been aboard a galaxy class ship before. There were only 3 at the time!

 

[Christopher]

There were mentions of all the Galaxies at the end of Endgame. There was only one in the fleet, ironically it was the Challenger.

No, there were at least five visible onscreen at once in this shot:

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/7x25-26/endgame_1392.jpg

Even IF the tng pilot said the D was the first galaxy...

It didn't. I already posted the link to the episode transcript.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Is that the final moments of Endgame? The picture I always see is where voyager is flying to earth with 1 galaxy. Unfortunately I don't have the dvds to check.

 

[Christopher]

It's from several minutes earlier. But those final moments do show two Galaxy-class ships:

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/7x25-26/endgame_1456.jpg

You don't need the DVDs, just use the TrekCore screencaps and Chakoteya.net transcripts like I do.

 

[Distorted Humor]

DH totally Non-Cannon explanation to the the number of Galaxy class starships.

The original run was a 6+6 order. It was a experimental design, so they didn't want to have too many lemons. The design after teething problems with the warp core (Look how many Chief engineers the Enterprise ran though the first year.) and other issues, the +6 was ordered, along with say, 3-4 "Keels" being laid down a year. Some other related designs (Nebula) that used a lot of the same technology was also put into series production.

The mass of starfleet at this time (Season 3 TNG) is still Miranda's, Excelsior, and ambassador classes, with a slew of older types. The Fed-cardassian war, Romulans being active, and the Borg threat all showed some serious issues with the lineup of the Federation fleet. the older Oberth and Constellation classes where out of date, and the Miranda's and Excelsiors needed major refits.
There was a major attempt to upgrade the "backbone" of the fleet, the Excelsior, with major upgrades, as seen in the USS Lakota, and some Excelisor class-Lakota refits where still being built though the dominion war (as it was a wartime emergency) but most of the production went into the Nova/Nebula/Galaxy style of starships that where proven and mass production (which started after Worf-359, who numbers came to good effect in the Dominion conflict.) I would put the Intrepid class in the same era as the Nova/Nebula/Galaxy classes, with perhaps some upgrades.

Starfleet wasn't going to get caught behind the times again, and newer classes like the Sovereign being produced and being fitting out for yet another group of series production. Due to the losses of the Klingon, borg, and Dominon, the current production ships like the Nova, Nebula, and Galaxy classes are being produced in much higher numbers then even the most high expectaions. By the end of Voyager you still may have upgraded Lakota-style Excelsior's being built as a stop gap measure, as there are 100's of Miranda and Excelsior hulls and crews lost in the last 10 years and the Excelsior due to its long life is a inexpensive design that when upgraded can hold its own vs. Defiant class ships, while being much more suited for scientific study.

 

[captcalhoun]

what about all the Akiras, Steamrunners, Sabres and Defiants? there's shit tons of the first three in DS9's Dominion War and a few Defiants in VGR's Endgame and there were a couple in Message in a Bottle (although granted, that could easily be the Sao Paolo and the Defiant or Sao Paolo and another)

 

[Distorted Humor]

To be honest, I would have to mix them in, as a i said, what i said is non-cannon, and I am sure there are other designs out there that they where building. I am sure in the Dominion war, they where building anything that they could.

 

[Technobuilder]

Once O'Brien & Sisko were able to iron out the power issues with the Defiant testbed, the class was put into rapid production during a time of war.

The Defiant-Class (initially created to combat the "looming" Borg threat, instead became the perfect system defense, border patrol, & threat response vessels for the a reduced overall cost in both available resources & limited crewing requirements.

I'm sure that a lot of Lieutenants and Lt. Commanders earned recognition and gained permanent Captaincy during that particular conflict. (Least according to how Starfleet tends to work).

It's just conjecture, but I'd guess there are at least several hundred of them in service by the end of the Dominion War.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It's probably like how Franz Joseph postulated 100+ Constitution (or Archernar) class ships a couple of decades after Kirk said there were only 12 in the fleet. Mass production throughout the Federation? I doubt starships are ONLY built in orbit of Earth and Mars (and, of course, in Iowa corn fields)

 

[Technobuilder]

It's kind of odd, but for a show dealing with "how much there is to explore" in space, Star Trek has always felt small.

You really don't get the sense very often, or should I say often enough, that the Federation is this massive organization of hundreds of worlds supporting trillions of sentient beings.

As you said, on average, we never really get to see the infrastructure that would be required to maintain and service such a vast multi-planet alliance.

It's always just one or a few ships dealing with a grandiose but almost exclusively isolated problem which rarely tends to impact others outside the plot in question.

Stories like Destiny tend to show me that the universe can be writ large, but it's going to be a long road stepping away from that smallness.

 

[F. King Daniel]

IMO Diane Duane had it down way back in the early 80's. According to her, what we saw on TV and film was just the "human branch" of Starfleet. "The Wounded Sky" gave us a glimpse of a non-human Starfleet space station and "My Enemy, My Ally" gave us a miles-long Federation starship built at Deneb and crewed by elephant-sized nonhumanoids.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think it's real easy to run wild with Star Trek and turn it into something like Star Wars where everything is on a really huge scale and of galactic importance to millions of worlds.

 

[Stevil2001]

I have a soft spot for the Madison and the Idaho from DWS/KKR's books. I like that they always were assigned to missions together-- because you need two Galaxy-class ships to do a lot of things?

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Except for First Contact, where only the Madison was mentioned. Maybe the Idaho was there behind the scenes.

 

[MatthiasRussell]

what about all the Akiras, Steamrunners, Sabres and Defiants? there's shit tons of the first three in DS9's Dominion War and a few Defiants in VGR's Endgame and there were a couple in Message in a Bottle (although granted, that could easily be the Sao Paolo and the Defiant or Sao Paolo and another)

These classes of ships are much smaller than Galaxies. With less materials and systems, they would be much easier to produce in great numbers and quickly. I wouldn't have questioned entire fleets of these.

Once again though, what were those Mirandas doing out there during the war? If I was stationed aboard a miranda during the war, I would have considered it a death sentence, like being sent out to WWII in the Merrimac.

 

[BillJ]

Once again though, what were those Mirandas doing out there during the war? If I was stationed aboard a miranda during the war, I would have considered it a death sentence, like being sent out to WWII in the Merrimac.

We only see the outer hull of those vessels. On the inside they may carry equipment just as advanced as the new builds, what with refits and all.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Once again though, what were those Mirandas doing out there during the war? If I was stationed aboard a miranda during the war, I would have considered it a death sentence, like being sent out to WWII in the Merrimac.

We only see the outer hull of those vessels. On the inside they may carry equipment just as advanced as the new builds, what with refits and all.

Indeed, even in modern navies and airforces, the ships and planes can be stripped down, refurbished, and rebuilt with modern technology and be very effective systems. In fact there are some economic sense to build such basic frames, as in most cases, warp 9 and a proven hull will get a lot of the work done, and most shipyards would be able to build them. The same hull design was also used for cargo hulls and other uses, so I am sure it was a good hull that promised good service life and was easy to maintain in both parts and in knowledge base. For example, the Cessna 172 (or MI-8 if you want a militarily plane) has been in production for years, and still serves the needs of what they where produced for. And many WWII ships served in navies till they rusted away with major upgrades to the defensive systems and weapons. For upgrades, the frame of the F-16 has been in production for 30+ years, but the early production models are not the same craft as the modern production, even if they look the same.


As for my long non-conon description of star fleet building practices, Akiras, Steamrunners, Sabres where designs that at the time pushed the technology level, and once proven, went into serialized production. The Defiant Class was a war-time build, (as the problems where not solved until the Dominion war was upon the federation) and most likely dozens, if not hundreds where built, and due to the small cost in manpower and material, that they are highly useful for defense and system defense needs, and that let starfleet to build a lot more science vessels that did not have massive firepower as the defiant's could fill that need.

 

[captcalhoun]

look at the C-130 Hercules as well. damn thing's nigh on 60 years old, but they keep upgrading it. the current on is the C-130J Hercules II. USAF needed a replacement, so they replaced it with the Hercules. the main external difference is the different prop blades.