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Spoilers Does it feel to anyone else that SNW is cynically mining Trek's past glories?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here
I just think of the Rolling Stones:
When I'm watchin' my TV
And a man comes on and tells me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarettes as me

They can't be Trek fans because they don't say the same things as me. That's always the impression I get.

The point is, I don't think I need to be "woke" to be a Trek fan. I think I can acknowledge the wonderful diversity that Trek has espoused, even if it has not lived up to that standard, but ultimately there is a lot of things in Trek to like beyond that.
 
[QUOTE="zzz, post: 14538194, member: 17357>]Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow => City on the Edge of Tomorrow [/QUOTE]

I've never heard of an episode titled "City on the Edge of Tomorrow".
 
I just think of the Rolling Stones:
When I'm watchin' my TV
And a man comes on and tells me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarettes as me

They can't be Trek fans because they don't say the same things as me. That's always the impression I get.

The point is, I don't think I need to be "woke" to be a Trek fan. I think I can acknowledge the wonderful diversity that Trek has espoused, even if it has not lived up to that standard, but ultimately there is a lot of things in Trek to like beyond that.
Well, "woke" doesn't really mean anything. It's just a vague, nebulous term that's used to refer to anything that right-wingers don't like.
But I would argue that the majority of right-wingers can't be Trek fans without being hypocrites. Unless they only watch it for the cool spaceships and look no further, being bigoted and prejudiced goes against the entire message of Star Trek's nearly 60-year history. I see a lot of people on Twitter complaining that new Trek is "too woke", and I can't help but think that they really just don't understand old Trek if they think that it is in any way more compatible with their views than new Trek (unless they just watch "Code of Honor" and "Profit and Lace" on loop or something).
 
Well, "woke" doesn't really mean anything. It's just a vague, nebulous term that's used to refer to anything that right-wingers don't like.
Which is why I don't use it. Vague terms are next to useless. In terms of politics it's just broad sweeping labeling of things people don't like, on either side. "You're too woke! Yeah, well, you're too right wing!"

No dialog can come from that.
 
Actually woke is a word originally from the African American community appropriate by wider society iirc. Of course a lot is appropriated from African-American vernacular (especially AA women from what I observe)
 
Actually woke is a word originally from the African American community appropriate by wider society iirc. Of course a lot is appropriated from African-American vernacular (especially AA women from what I observe)
Well, being white I don't tend to use the vernacular.

I prefer Derbys.*



*three points to anyone who catches the reference.
 
Well, "woke" doesn't really mean anything. It's just a vague, nebulous term that's used to refer to anything that right-wingers don't like.
But I would argue that the majority of right-wingers can't be Trek fans without being hypocrites. Unless they only watch it for the cool spaceships and look no further, being bigoted and prejudiced goes against the entire message of Star Trek's nearly 60-year history. I see a lot of people on Twitter complaining that new Trek is "too woke", and I can't help but think that they really just don't understand old Trek if they think that it is in any way more compatible with their views than new Trek (unless they just watch "Code of Honor" and "Profit and Lace" on loop or something).

Well... yes and no.

Like, overtly, Star Trek has always rejected racism and celebrated diversity.

But even setting aside whether or not Star Trek usually lives up to its purported celebration of diversity -- and I'm not convinced it does...

The thing about Star Trek is, I think it was Bryan Fuller who argued that liberals like Star Trek because it's a future where everyone's equal and things like poverty, disease, war, racism, sexism, bigotry etc have all been overcome -- and conservatives like Star Trek because it's in a setting that's intensely hierarchical, where everyone is a member of the same paramilitary organization, everyone's wearing the same uniform, and the paramilitary institution and its leadership is almost always wise and correct at the end of the day, where colonialism ("IN SPACE!") is benevolent, where violent resolution of conflict is framed by the narrative as acceptable, where telling foolish natives how to live their lives is the right thing to do, where the power of the state to expand is unquestioned, and where it's okay to engage in biological essentialism against aliens whose choices we don't like.

Star Trek, from a certain POV, is a fantasy of benevolent colonialism and expansionism, where characters can engage in biological essentialist stereotyping, starring space cops.

So... yeah, I do kind of understand why Star Trek also attracts right-wing personality types. It's a franchise whose most essential thematic impulses are frankly in some tension with one-another.
 
So... yeah, I do kind of understand why Star Trek also attracts right-wing personality types. It's a franchise whose most essential thematic impulses are frankly in some tension with one-another.
Just like most humans.
 
It's true ST doesn't always live up to the equality it preaches in practice, partially because some of the guys writing and producing it hold on to their own antiquated ideals
 
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