Does anyone find DS9 to be a bit of a yawn?

[keekwai]

I'm interested in learning why you feel that way.

Ok. I'm sure I've already said it .. but ..

"To seek out new planets and go where no one has gone before" etc etc.

I like the "exploration" component of Star Trek .. and DS9 lacks that a lot. At least the first 2 seasons I've seen. Sitting in a space station is a bit boring to me. It's contrary to all the other ST series. There is no particular episode in DS9 I don't like. In fact .. I don't overly dislike it at all. Like I said, I thought it was a "BIT" of a yawn.

Others have expressed the same opinion...a couple have even expressed a stronger dislike than me! .. but .. as I already said .. I've been "enlightened" to the fact that it picks up in later seasons.

... and like I have also said before .. I'm looking forward to proving my opening post wrong .. at least for post season 2.

I really can't add further to that. It was a simple comment which in normal everyday situations wouldn't raise an eyebrow. I simply underestimated the "passion" some people can have for a fictional TV show.

 

[Saquist]

There is some episodes which make me want to skip but hey its a great series.
The character development is brilliant as the series progresses.
I very much enjoy ds9, keep watching and you will star to enjoy DS9
I only discovered DS9 this year and wasnt sure i would enjoy it, but its great.

Skip all the Ferengi Episodes.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Too much to quote .. see above ^^

Sigh ..

- I HAVE stopped mentioning the "unmentionable" .. since I learned of my mistake. Thanks for bringing it up again

- Traveling around the World on your annual holidays is a slightly different kettle of fish to permanently living in a third world country for 4 years .. wouldn't you think?

- I can assure you I am not trolling. I've been a Star Trek fan since I first watched TOS on TV many moons ago. I just have not met many people in day to day life who are into it... and this IS the first time I have joined ANY kind of a SciFi related forum. My query was genuine.

- I have watched the show for a while.

- I DID "skim" over the rules at first as most forum rules are similar .. hence .. missing the IProperty bit .. my bad.

- My attitude? I asked a reasonable and genuine question.

- If you read all of the thread .. you will see that I have already conceded that my judgment was premature and will be viewing the entire series.

- Basically saying that "newbies" have no right to an opinion is a bit of a strange one.

- Re - Babylon5 .. I HAVE been discussing it ... read the thread a little more. The comment was "tongue in cheek" Maybe I should check the rules about displaying a sense of humour as well.

-Please don't call me a troll .. thanks

- Finally .. chill a little .. were discussing a TV show here. Are noobs expressing an honest opinion usually attacked like this?

Phew!

1. Your attitude was not 'reasonable' and 'genuine' when you started out. You started out with snide remarks and an attitude toward other posters that was less than friendly and sincere. It wasn't the question - it was your attitude and responses to other posters that got my attention. And I stand by those remarks. As I said - you are welcome to discuss DS9, even if you don't like it. But do it with respect for others.

1. I have nothing at all against 'newbies' in general and never said you had no right to an opinion. But I am quite reasonably suspicious of brand new posters whose very first posts on this board generate a bunch of notify mod emails in my box about some new guy breaking the rules by discussing torrenting and by disrespecting other posters. It is my JOB to deal with such situations promptly and encourage said 'newbies' to read the rules they agreed to when they joined this board. Sorry that annoys you...but those are the breaks. Post respectfully and obey the rules, and you won't have any problems with me. Regardless of your 'opinions'.

3. I didn't call you a troll. But you WERE borderline trolling. Thanks.

4. Before you PRESUME to know such things as where and for how long I've traveled in other parts of the world and what sorts of experiences I've had as a result, I'd actually...oh...I don't know....maybe find out the facts. In actual fact, I HAVE lived, worked, and backpacked around overseas (including several countries in Asia), and in some places and at some times that were extremely chaotic and filled with political and social turmoil. Try Russia - mid 1990's immediately after the fall of communism. Look it up if you don't know what was going on there then and how expats had to conduct our daily lives. Rest assured - it was no 'annual holiday' as you put it.

Trust me, I've lived and worked in alot more of the world than you PRESUMED in your post, which aimed to insult me by implying that I was some straw-hat wearing tour bus tourist without a clue, and that you are ever so much wiser. But I've got news for you: I am not nearly as clueless as you assumed. And you are no Robert Young Pelton. So in future I think we can dispense with the silliness about how you know so much more about the world than I.

But that is all really moot...because regardless of your incorrect assumptions about me personally, you STILL can't discuss torrents on this site, and you STILL can't post in a snarky, borderline trolling sort of manner toward other posters. And it is my JOB to made sure that is crystal clear to you as a new poster, regardless of what others have or have not said. I am the moderator of this forum, and it is my JOB to state officially what is and isn't allowable, and advise you of any action steps you need to take (like reading the rules). Which is exactly what I did in my last post.

All you have to do is dial back the 'tude, post in a polite manner (as in not snarky, arrogant, or insulting toward other posters - including me) and you won't hear another peep out of me as moderator.

But continue with the snarky manner, and you will continue to have unsatisfactory dealings with me.

Personally? I'd prefer the former. By a large, large margin.

 

[keekwai]

^ Please grow up .. even just a little. Everything you accused me of you are actually doing yourself.

Take a look. Are you going for troll of the week or something? You viciously attacked me for no good reason.

Re-read the first post .. then the subsequent posts and contemplate.

If you want to discuss it further .. pm me and stop cluttering up the thread with your long winded tirades.

Now go away...That's a good lass

 

[keekwai]

All you have to do is dial back the 'tude

Unbelievable .. the worst case of "Pot calling Kettle black" I've seen in a while.

Bye.

 

[Deckerd]

It seems to me you're asking for it keekwai. A brief but eventful career on the TrekBBS. Hope you have more success elsewhere.

 

[keekwai]

When you and PKtrekGirl get tired of chewing my leg off .. you can go and give this guy a turn.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=81024

Much more severe criticism than my humble post.

Then come back here and explain the difference between his first post and mine.

Thanks

 

[keekwai]

It seems to me you're asking for it keekwai. A brief but eventful career on the TrekBBS. Hope you have more success elsewhere.

I want you to take a step backward and TRY to take an objective view of that comment. Then report back what you see.

 

[Kathryn-janeway]

There is some episodes which make me want to skip but hey its a great series.
The character development is brilliant as the series progresses.
I very much enjoy ds9, keep watching and you will star to enjoy DS9
I only discovered DS9 this year and wasnt sure i would enjoy it, but its great.

Skip all the Ferengi Episodes.

Agree, im not too keen on them

 

[keekwai]

^ What do the Ferengi episodes consist of .. mostly?

 

[TheGodBen]

"To seek out new planets and go where no one has gone before" etc etc.

I like the "exploration" component of Star Trek .. and DS9 lacks that a lot.

See, this is something I don't understand, I find Voyager and early Enterprise to be disappointing because they focused on exploration rather than the shows' unique premises. Voyager in particular, they spent most of their time meeting aliens or scanning anomalies, they may as well not have been trapped in the Delta Quadrant at all. I would have much preferred if Voyager had been more introspective and dealt more with the nature of two crews forced together on a small ship and how they transformed into a generation-ship of sorts. As for Enterprise, I think that show should have been more like season 4 from the very beginning, it should have been about the politics of founding the Federation and the preparation for the Earth-Romulan War, instead they squandered the first two seasons on exploration stories that just weren't that good.

Star Trek stagnated in part because UPN thought that the shows had to be about exploration just like TNG, so the writers were tied down to doing formulaic sci-fi television that had already been done better on TNG. Enterprise was finally allowed to do something new in season 3 and 4, but it was too late, the ratings were already too low, and the show was cancelled.

Others have expressed the same opinion...a couple have even expressed a stronger dislike than me! .. but .. as I already said .. I've been "enlightened" to the fact that it picks up in later seasons.

It picks up, but it rarely does the sort of exploration done in the other shows. There is exploration, but it's in-depth exploration of the races we already know. You learn more about the Klingons, the Cardassians, the Ferengi, the Dominion, and even the Federation. There's a few new races and a few anomalies, but DS9 is ultimately about the races we already know and how they relate to one another.

 

[keekwai]

^ So it's "Horses for courses" "Each to his own" etc. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes .. and that's fair enough in my book. My O.P was find out if anyone had a similar opinion as me. Dissimilar are fine too .. variety is the spice of life and all that.

As for Voyager. I think it does delve into the personalities of the crew to a certain extent. There's Janeway's relationship with 7of9 .. helping her to discover her "humanity". There's the Doctor trying to discover his ... machinery? Tom and Belana's rocky romance, Tuvok getting his mind wiped and turning "human like" and trying to decide if he should stay that way or not etc etc.

... but as I'm yet to watch season 3 and onwards of DS9 .. I can't really compare just on that aspect yet.

I'll make a final post on this beleaguered thread in a few weeks and let you know if my overall opinion of DS9 has changed.

 

[Xenu Cruise]

DS9 is my favorite Trek series and part of that reason is because they aren't exploring new worlds or seeking out new life. Those things are all well and good, but you start to see similar stories over and over again. I'm a big fan of political stories and power plays. This is where DS9 excels.

It would have been easy to be just a Federation space station but they chose to go with an abandoned Cardassian station in Bajoran space at the end of a decades long occupation. The Federation and Bajorans have to work together and keep the ever presenter Cardassians at bay. This, to me, is immediately more interesting than a spaceship cruising around meeting people.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

[TheGodBen]

^ So it's "Horses for courses" "Each to his own" etc. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes .. and that's fair enough in my book. My O.P was find out if anyone had a similar opinion as me. Dissimilar are fine too .. variety is the spice of life and all that.

Absolutely, I came to accept some time ago that Voyager wasn't for me but that the show has its loyal fans and they're happy with it. I have DS9, they have Voyager, some love both, all is well with the world.

And I don't mean to say that Voyager is a complete write-off because it's not, I just ever so slightly dislike it more than I like it. The show has several great episodes that do the Star Trek franchise proud, such as Scorpion and Living Witness, and there's some great characters like The Doctor and Tuvok.

When I say that I think Voyager should have been more introspective I'm thinking of Lee Adama's speech from BSG:

LEE: I'd say we're very forgiving of mistakes. We make our own laws now, our own justice. We've been pretty creative at finding ways to let people off the hook for everything from theft to murder. And we've had to be, because... because we're not a civilization any more. We are a gang, and we're on the run, and we have to fight to survive. We have to break rules, we have to bend laws, we have to improvise.

Voyager did this sort of study once in an episode called Alliances, and somehow the writers got things mixed up and gave the end of the episode a message that didn't match up with what happened on screen. There was this bizarre message about how they have to stick with the Starfleet rulebook even though they never abandoned it, and it was Janeway's refusal to abandon those rules that got them into a huge mess. It was like Janeway completely ignored what happened in that episode and nobody in the crew had the sense to call her out on that. After that episode, the subject didn't really come up again. I think it was a huge missed opportunity.

I detailed my idea for Voyager in my old review thread:

Well I like my story arcs, so Basics Part 2 would have been expanded over three or four episodes. The way I see it, Tom begins hearing rumours about Voyager attacking innocent vessels and he convinces the Talaxians to investigate. When they catch up with Voyager, Tom finds out that the Kazon have control of it and he is forced to flee because the Talaxian ship isn't powerful enough to take on Voyager. Tom realises that they need to form a powerful fleet to take on Voyager and the other Nistrim ships so he convinces various races including the Talaxians, the Trabe and maybe even the Vidiians to put together enough ships to take on the Nistrim before they destroy the little stability which exists in that region of space.

They retake the ship in an epic battle, the crew is rescued from wherever they are, and Voyager leaves the region which is now a little more united thanks to Tom's efforts. He could either stay behind and try to help the region on the path towards its own Federation, or he could do the "safe" thing and rejoin the crew on the journey towards Earth.

The Voyager-Nistrim incident could have been the event which led to stability in a dangerous region of space, much like the Romulan wars united the various races around Earth. I think that would have been much more fitting for a Star Trek series than having Voyager fly off leaving the problem behind.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Star Trek stagnated in part because UPN thought that the shows had to be about exploration just like TNG, so the writers were tied down to doing formulaic sci-fi television that had already been done better on TNG. Enterprise was finally allowed to do something new in season 3 and 4, but it was too late, the ratings were already too low, and the show was cancelled.

Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that the whole "seek out new life and new civilizations" theme of Trek drags the franchise down. Though, I will admit, I've known this about you for some time now.

I've always said that Trek was at it's best even it wasn't about exploring new life and new civilizations. Even back in TOS, the best episodes deal with "in-depth exploration of the races [or characters] we already know," as you say.

Some of my favorites from each series...

TOS - The Conscience of the King, Journey to Babel
TNG - The Defector, Sarek
DS9 - In the Pale Moonlight, Rapture
VOY - Meld, Scorpion
ENT - The Forge, United

Those are all Trek at it's best right there as far as I'm concerned, and not one deals with exploring the unknown.

 

[TheGodBen]

Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that the whole "seek out new life and new civilizations" theme of Trek drags the franchise down. Though, I will admit, I've known this about you for some time now.

I don't think it necessarily drags down the franchise, it works sometimes, the problem is that there was 10 seasons of it in TOS and TNG, it was time for the franchise to do new things. Compared to those classic shows, Voyager and early Enterprise are pale imitators, even by the final season of TNG the formula was wearing thin. DS9 was right to try something new and I think it paid off very well, the writers on Voyager and Enterprise wanted to do something new but they weren't allowed by the network.

Sometimes I think that the network and writers forgot that Star Trek fans are fans of the universe; we like learning more about the races we have come to know. I don't particularly care if the Valnags from the Beta VI cluster are in trouble, I have no idea who they are. But the Romulans, or the Cardassians, or the Andorians... I care about them and want to know more about them. Sure, you can make a series about exploring in unknown space and meeting new aliens, but there's still a lot more I'd like to know about those other races.

DS9 is more that kind of show, as is TNG to a lesser extent. Enterprise was becoming that kind of show when it was cancelled.

Some of my favorites from each series...

TOS - The Conscience of the King, Journey to Babel

Someone else that thinks The Conscience of the King is one of the best TOS episodes?! People normally think I'm weird when I say that. It seems like it's just you, me and Ron Moore that like that episode.

 

[Lucien]

DS9 is fine and dandy for me, but the Bajoran episodes are one giant borefest and I try my best to avoid them. Or at least cross my arms and be negative when I watch them. Pretty much every Bajoran aside from Leeta (And yes, I'm including Kira) embody every annoying trait out there. They're overly religious, they complain all the time, and their ego is totally inflated. As such I find episodes revolving around them and their beloved Prophets to be un-interesting.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Some of my favorites from each series...

TOS - The Conscience of the King, Journey to Babel

Someone else that thinks The Conscience of the King is one of the best TOS episodes?! People normally think I'm weird when I say that. It seems like it's just you, me and Ron Moore that like that episode.

Well, you and Ron Moore find yourselves in excellent company.

 

[Photon]

They're overly religious,

Yep, over religious ppl are def destroying society and are so irritating....helping the poor w/out govt $$, running orphanages, helping disintegrating families and building homes from scratch is so irritating......

 

[Marie1]

^

I'm interested in learning why you feel that way.

"To seek out new planets and go where no one has gone before" etc etc.

I like the "exploration" component of Star Trek .. and DS9 lacks that a lot. At least the first 2 seasons I've seen. Sitting in a space station is a bit boring to me. It's contrary to all the other ST series. There is no particular episode in DS9 I don't like. In fact .. I don't overly dislike it at all. Like I said, I thought it was a "BIT" of a yawn.

Once you see more of the show, you'll note that they explore other planets, meet new cultures, and learn in greater depth about others.

The Founders, the Jem'Hadar and the Vorta are totally new species.

You don't need to move the station just to explore- DS9 has ships, and they explore. We learn about tons of planets, and some exiled species come to the station.