Does anyone find DS9 to be a bit of a yawn?

[keekwai]

Re: Hope you have a good anti-virus program

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Anyway, S1 has some weak episodes but just wait..........................

I had the same attitude too, until Way of the Warrior.

OK .. As soon as "You know what" (am I in a Harry Potter movie?) is finished I'll give it another airing all the way through to season seven and see what happens.

On a final positive note .. as far as space stations go .. DS9 craps all over Babylon 5 ..


Oh hell! .. now all the B5 fanatics are going to go for my throat.

 

[TheGodBen]

I've probably watched up to about Season 3 or so on TV .. back in Australia.

You've reached the Dominion era then, that's popularly considered the good part of the show (although I'm a fan of season 2 as well). Season 4 builds on that (while going off on an odd tangent), season 5 is awesome, and in season 6 and 7 there's a major event going on.

DS9 takes some time to build up, but once it gets there it is the most complex and exciting Star Trek series. Ultimately, it's the most rewarding show for long-time viewers.

If you guys would notice .. I said it was a "bit" of a yawn. Not a "total" yawn.

Well yes, it's a bit of a yawn. Season 1 can be very dull, the mid-section of season 2 has several dull episodes, as can certain sections of season 3, 6 and 7. And every season has at least 1 horrendous episode. But all the Trek series have their dull patches, there isn't a single season of Star Trek that is complete perfection. DS9 is far from perfect but, for my money, it reached levels of excitement that none of the other Trek series managed.

 

[keekwai]

Re: Hope you have a good anti-virus program

Hope you have a good anti-virus program

In 30 odd years of computing ..there hasn't been a virus yet that could get the better of this old geek.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: Hope you have a good anti-virus program

On a final positive note .. as far as space stations go .. DS9 craps all over Babylon 5 ..


Oh hell! .. now all the B5 fanatics are going to go for my throat.

I'm not a fanatic, but I'll give it a shot.

B5 has many advantages over DS9, but also greater weaknesses. For example, I feel that Babylon 5 wasn't good at standalone episodes and that the strength was in the story arc, a story arc which holds together very well because it was all plotted out years in advance. DS9 is better at standalone storytelling, but the arcs aren't quite as good due to not being pre-planned. Overall I prefer DS9, my affinity to the Star Trek universe means I care about the events in DS9 more, and I prefer the characters on DS9 to those on B5. Still, Babylon 5 is a good show and worthy of the praise it receives.

 

[keekwai]

You've reached the Dominion era then, that's popularly considered the good part of the show

Maybe not .. I've been moving around a lot over the past few years .. probably up to the start of S3.

You have me intrigued now .. maybe I'll convert.

 

[Deckerd]

Although I have to say that the tendency for ST producers to come up with a really intriguing and powerful adversary (Borg, anyone?) and then pull their teeth is sadly evident in DS9 too.

 

[keekwai]

B5 .. a bit of a contrived ST wannabe I think. (but that's just my opinion!)

I do watch it .. if it happens to be on the SciFi channel .. when I have access to cable that is!

The Centauris in their 17th century Naval uniforms are good for a laugh though.

 

[TheGodBen]

Maybe not .. I've been moving around a lot over the past few years .. probably up to the start of S3.

You have me intrigued now .. maybe I'll convert.

Well, the Dominion are the major antagonists in the show. They were hinted at in season 2 before making their presence known in the season finale, they spent seasons 3 and 4 plotting the downfall of the Alpha Quadrant insidiously before making their big move in season 5. The final seasons dealt with the conflict that resulted.

B5 .. a bit of a contrived ST wannabe I think. (but that's just my opinion!)

I think J Michael Straczynski (the creator of B5) feels that DS9 is the wannabe. In fact, he's fairly confident of it.

The Centauris in their 17th century Naval uniforms are good for a laugh though.

You should give it a fair shot if you get the chance. The production values are low and the first two seasons are slow to get going, but by season 3 the show has some magnificent arcs going. As for the Centauri, they're supposed to look like that because they're an ageing imperialist power that is losing their influence.

 

[keekwai]

B5 .. a bit of a contrived ST wannabe I think. (but that's just my opinion!)

I think J Michael Straczynski (the creator of B5) feels that DS9 is the wannabe. In fact, he's fairly confident of it.

Yes .. I read something about that recently .. his idea was ripped off or something? .. but I meant Star Trek as a whole .. not as a DS9 wannabe.

The Centauris in their 17th century Naval uniforms are good for a laugh though.

As for the Centauri, they're supposed to look like that because they're an ageing imperialist power that is losing their influence.

Yes .. but they're "aliens" .. why use something that looks like 17th century Earth costumes?

Star Trek is guilty of that too sometimes .. except it's usually something like Roman Togas.. and living like Romans .. marble columns, bowls of fruit lying around etc etc

 

[Admiral Shran]

B5 .. a bit of a contrived ST wannabe I think. (but that's just my opinion!)

I think J Michael Straczynski (the creator of B5) feels that DS9 is the wannabe. In fact, he's fairly confident of it.

Yes .. I read something about that recently .. his idea was ripped off or something? .. but I meant Star Trek as a whole .. not as a DS9 wannabe.

NO, I REFUSE TO ACCEPT IT! DS9 ALL THE WAY!

Actually, I will admit that B5 has some things going for it. It's story arcs are impressive and I've managed to connect with some of the characters (not all, but a good sized percentage of them).

Though to be fair, it should be pointed out that DS9's producers have always been adament that Straczynski is full of crap when he says they stole his ideas.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

So .. is discussion of torrents against the rules or what? Spare me the philosophical lectures .. just let me know.

It is. For your convenience: Here.

OK .. Nice to know. Thanks. Can you direct me to poll where you deduced that answer?

Oh boy, looks like sarcasm is lost on you. Of course you are not the only person who doesn't like Deep Space Nine. What's the purpose of this thread if obviously you already knew the answer to your question beforehand?

keekwai,

I see I no longer have to direct you to the intellectual property discussion in the board rules - the rules, incidentally, you were required to read and agree to BEFORE you began posting here.

But the bottom line is that you need to drop all discussion of torrenting permanently. Living in Thailand is no excuse - I've been all over the world, and there are ways to do things right, if you really want to, no matter where you live.

Now, about this attitude you have going on here. Here's the deal: You need to dial it back. You are a complete n00b who seems to have joined this board and come to this forum to intentionally pick a fight, and that is not acceptable. In fact, in our universe, we have a name for that: trolling.

Now so far, you have only been on the borderline there, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But you need to seriously dial back the 'tude and learn how to work and play well with others in this forum, or reconsider your continued participation around here. We are happy to discuss DS9 with you - even if you dislike it. But your discussion & criticisms must be put forward in a respectful way. Not as a series of snide remarks and comparisons to teen angst dramas.

Also, you might consider actually watching the show for a while (with an open mind, preferably) before you make comments alleging you dislike it because it's boring and 'they never go anywhere'. That comment only makes it absolutely crystal clear to us that you did not watch much of this show. Because nothing could be further from the truth.

My suggestion - either watch the show with an open mind...and give it a chance to develop into what it really IS before judging it, or if you are not that patient, don't bother with it. Of course, if you choose the latter, you also needn't bother with making unfounded criticisms about something you didn't watch either.

Bottom line: Your case for disliking this show would be a whole lot stronger if you came across as someone who had actually watched it. But comments like 'they never went anywhere' betray the fact that you have not, in fact, watched that much of it. And sort of undermine the credibility of your opinions in general as a result. Might want to think about that before taking up another criticism thread. Especially as a new board member.

Thanks.

EDIT: One other thing. One-off comments like the one about how DS9 'craps all over B5', posted without any respectful discussion backing up that opinion, are also not cool around here. I would encourage you to read the rules of this board, since you clearly did not do that when instructed to do so earlier. Please pay particular attention to the rules regarding trolling. On this board, comments like that, which are made without any sort of back-up or discussion as to why you feel that way, are not acceptable. My guess is that you posted what you did WANTING to piss off B5 fans (you pretty much admitted as much). An objective that is a non-starter around here. Thanks.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Is it just me .. or does anyone else find DS9 a bit of a yawn? I mean .. they just sit there .. orbiting that wormhole .. day after day. They don't go anywhere .. much.

Just because it orbits a wormhole and doesn't take place on a starship doesn't make it boring. It is all in the execution.

I enjoyed TNG more but DS9 was pretty good overall. I will admit rewatching it a decade after it ended creates a mixed reaction. On the one hand it is kind of nostalgic watching it again but at the same time having been exposed to shows like LOST its original weaknesses I felt it had during my first viewing of the series makes them all the more pronounced--too much filler, not being heavily serialized, S1 being pretty weak and relying far too much on TNG, the Klingon/Federation hostilities not being mined to better effect, too many of the silly romance and Ferengi episodes, the romantic relationships like Jadzia/Worf being bland, the main cast being not as compelling as the recurring roster, weak season finales, boring Bajoran stories and characters like Shakaar, lack of consistency.

But the things I enjoyed before I still do like the arc storylines--I will say though rewatching arcs(and this is true for any serialized arc) isn't nearly as much fun as the first time. And I loved what the writers did by taking previously established Trek worlds from TOS/TNG and showing their reactions to the Dominion War.

To me .. it seems like "Melrose Place" .. on a space station.

I personally loved the original Melrose Place. I guess what you are saying is the romantic focus? But that wasn't all there was to MP nor was it all that there was to DS9. DS9 had lots of interesting storylines.

 

[MNM]

Just because it orbits a wormhole and doesn't take place on a starship doesn't make it boring.

Though it was, often, during the first few seasons.

Once they started getting away from the wormhole/Bajor and the annoying Bajorans more, with the Defiant into the Gamma quadrant, with the war aganist the Klingons, with the Dominion War, it got much better.

 

[Deckerd]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found the Bajorans irritating. I wished they had done more with the Jem Hadar. There was so much potential there that wasn't followed up.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I personally found the episodes focusing on Bajoran politics in the first season and beginning of the second to be pretty good.

Granted, seasons one and two are the weakest of the show, but they had episodes like Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets, The Homecoming, The Circle, The Siege, The Collaborator, and Tribunal.

 

[TheGodBen]

Yes .. I read something about that recently .. his idea was ripped off or something? .. but I meant Star Trek as a whole .. not as a DS9 wannabe.

Nobody knows for certain, but JMS claims that DS9 ripped off B5 and DS9's writers claim that they didn't.

JMS had the idea for Babylon 5 in the 80s and he wrote up a series bible and character biographies to show various networks. He tried to sell the show to Paramount and they expressed interest, viewed his material, then passed on it. Later, PTEN picked up the show and got him to make a pilot movie called The Gathering, but at the same time Paramount produced DS9 and aired the first episode just a couple of weeks before B5 aired. JMS felt that Paramount stole his concept and rejiggered it to work in the Star Trek universe. Some others also feel that DS9's writers kept "borrowing" plot elements from B5 right throughout its run, and it is possible to list a number of similar events in B5 and DS9.

According to Rick Berman and Michael Piller (lead guys on TNG and the creators of DS9), they didn't know about B5 beforehand. They say that Paramount came to them wanting a spin-off from TNG and they were given free will in creating it. They had three concepts: 1) Another ship-based show, 2) A station-based show or 3) A colony-based show. They quickly ruled out doing a ship-based show because TNG was still on the air and they didn't want to do two similar shows at the same time, and they ruled out a colony-based show because that would have involved a lot of location shooting. That's how they claim they chose to do a space-station show, and they say that any similarities to B5 are conincidences. DS9's writers all claim that they never stole plot elements from B5 while it was on the air.

Only Berman and Piller know what really happened, and Piller is dead now. Paramount did see the B5 bible, but they're a big company and I don't know if there's any evidence that Berman and Piller had read it. As for the claims that DS9 copied B5 while both were on the air, that is impossible to prove but always a possibility.

It has led to bitter fights in the past and nobody has any definitive proof either way. I'm just letting you know the background of the situation, you can make your own decision on what you think happened. Personally, I don't think there's anything that can stop someone enjoying both shows.

Yes .. but they're "aliens" .. why use something that looks like 17th century Earth costumes?

Because they look fun.

Star Trek is guilty of that too sometimes .. except it's usually something like Roman Togas.. and living like Romans .. marble columns, bowls of fruit lying around etc etc

Hell, TOS had a whole planet that looked exactly like Earth!

 

[Admiral Shran]

Hell, TOS had a whole planet that looked exactly like Earth!

Ah, Miri's Planet.

I especially loved how there was absolutely no reason given in the episode itself for why the planet was an exact duplicate of Earth.

Seriously, what was the point?

 

[keekwai]

Too much to quote .. see above ^^

Sigh ..

- I HAVE stopped mentioning the "unmentionable" .. since I learned of my mistake. Thanks for bringing it up again

- Traveling around the World on your annual holidays is a slightly different kettle of fish to permanently living in a third world country for 4 years .. wouldn't you think?

- I can assure you I am not trolling. I've been a Star Trek fan since I first watched TOS on TV many moons ago. I just have not met many people in day to day life who are into it... and this IS the first time I have joined ANY kind of a SciFi related forum. My query was genuine.

- I have watched the show for a while.

- I DID "skim" over the rules at first as most forum rules are similar .. hence .. missing the IProperty bit .. my bad.

- My attitude? I asked a reasonable and genuine question.

- If you read all of the thread .. you will see that I have already conceded that my judgment was premature and will be viewing the entire series.

- Basically saying that "newbies" have no right to an opinion is a bit of a strange one.

- Re - Babylon5 .. I HAVE been discussing it ... read the thread a little more. The comment was "tongue in cheek" Maybe I should check the rules about displaying a sense of humour as well.

-Please don't call me a troll .. thanks

- Finally .. chill a little .. were discussing a TV show here. Are noobs expressing an honest opinion usually attacked like this?

Phew!

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I think DS9 was a little boring the first two season but most people I know (myself included) feel the action really picked up when the Dominion was introduced at the end of Season 2. I did like some of the political intrigue on Bajor (The Circle Trilogy was great as a season two opener) and some of the early stand-alone episodes were great and thought-provoking, like "Duet," although there were several stinkers (see "Move Along Home," etc.). Also, the complaint of the crew never leaving the station and the action/alien-of-the-week always having to come to them ... well, once they bring in the Defiant in season four, you can't really gripe about that anymore. TNG took a season or two to find its footing, some of those early episodes were cringeworthy, I mean really stupid and offense (remember the "African planet" type people, with all the racism/sexism?). DS9 hit its stride in season three and kept going strong until the end.

 

[keekwai]

I think DS9 was a little boring the first two season but most people I know (myself included) feel the action really picked up when the Dominion was introduced at the end of Season 2.

That's about where I got up to. From subsequent replies (barring a few emotional ones) I've learned that it improves markedly after that.

I'm looking forward to checking it out and proving my initial statement wrong .. at least for post Season two.

Thanks for the informative replies ..