Doctor Who – 4x12 – The Stolen Earth (Grade/Discuss)

[The Nth Doctor]

I've been thinking about this episode and one thing that keeps striking out at me was when they were in the Shadow Proclamation and the woman noticed the bug on Donna's back. I hope that scene isn't forgotten in the finale.

I just hope it's not a hint the whole thing is in an alternate reality, because that would be awful.

Well, it would tie in with the Shadow Proclamation not being aware of higher events such as the Time War (sorry, that whole thing bugged me, how this universal/galactic police force could miss that one), how could they then see what was on Donna's back.

Well, they can still be a galactic police without being a higher being. Only species like the Eternals and the Forest of Cheem were aware of the Time War. I don't really see the problem.

In The Ribos Operation, Romana says The Doctor is 759 and has been piloting the TARDIS for 523 years, meaning he was 236 years old when he stole the TARDIS. In Time and the Rani, The Doctor made the oldest age claim of 953 years and yet in the new series, his age has been refered to as ~900 years old. However, a few of those references have said he had been traveling in the TARDIS for 900 years, so I think it's safe to extrapolate that when he says he's 900 (or 903), his vanity is kicking in. With those numbers in mind, his age should be ~1200 years old.

The 523 years comment came from The Androids Of Tara and I think that was just the Doctor's way of BSing for a bit of a rest.

Ah, I was going by what Wikipedia said and it's been in that form for sometime now, so I figured it was correct. It's been a few years since I've seen either serial. Either way, I don't think he was BSing (although I still think it was Romana who said both figures).

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x12 – The Stolen Earth (Grade/Discuss)

I think it's safe to extrapolate that when he says he's 900 (or 903), his vanity is kicking in. With those numbers in mind, his age should be ~1200 years old.

The 900/903 thing...

Assuming that 900 in "The Empty Child" is a baseline, then 903 in "Voyage of the Damned" is probably meant to show that it's three years later for the Doctor.

Except, as a friend of mine pointed out, it's inaccurate as hell.

The Doctor and Rose's adventures probably are about two years in duration.

Martha's adventures with the Doctor are about two years in duration. There's a length gap between "42" and "Utopia." "Human Nature" itself spans three months. And there's the Year That Never Was, except that for Martha, it did happen.

The Doctor's adventures with Martha are about five years in duration. "The Infinite Quest" spans three years from the Doctor's perspective. (Okay, technically, the Doctor was having adventures with Squawk during that period and not Martha. But that's a technicality.) Add those three years to the two years the Doctor spent actually with Martha, and that's five years.

Which means that the Doctor's 903 in "Voyage" should have been 907 at the very least.

All that said, both numbers are completely wrong, because the old series tells us that by McCoy, the Doctor was already older than 903. So, he's just being vain. Or he's dating his age back to Gallifrey's rebirth post-The Gallifrey Chronicles.

 

[The Squire of Gothos]

Well, they can still be a galactic police without being a higher being. Only species like the Eternals and the Forest of Cheem were aware of the Time War. I don't really see the problem

Just that they seem a bit clownish compared to the Doctor and feeble in comparison to a threat like the Cybermen or Daleks.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Allyn, that's your long way of saying you agree with me, right?

Well, they can still be a galactic police without being a higher being. Only species like the Eternals and the Forest of Cheem were aware of the Time War. I don't really see the problem

Just that they seem a bit clownish compared to the Doctor and feeble in comparison to a threat like the Cybermen or Daleks.

Maybe. But as I said in another thread, I don't think we enough about them to properly judge.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x12 – The Stolen Earth (Grade/Discuss)

Allyn, that's your long way of saying you agree with me, right?

Sure. But I didn't just have to demolish 903, I had to nuke it from orbit, just to be sure.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Allyn, that's your long way of saying you agree with me, right?

Sure. But I didn't just have to demolish 903, I had to nuke it from orbit, just to be sure.

Fair enough.


I've watched the episode three times now (shush!) and I swear one of the Daleks invading the Manhattan U.N.I.T. headquarters screams "AND I HATE UNIT!" Do I need to have my ears checked or are other people hearing this, too?

 

[Irvy]

It's "Annihilate Unit"

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Ah, well, that's not too far from "And I hate."

Still, I probably should have my ears checked.

 

[Ariadne]

I thought it was "and I hate" as well.

I'm disappointed to hear that it was "annihilate".

 

[David cgc]

I think saying he was a kid at 90 goes a long way towards explaining how Doc 1 looked so old, and managed to live 860 years without regenerating.

I'm sure he didn't literally mean he was a child at age 90. By that point, he probably looked about thirty or forty in human terms, and may have been starting his family around that point. He meant it in the same way a fifty or sixty year old man might say he was a dumb kid in his twenties, while he was technically a young adult.

 

[tomalak301]

I've been thinking about this episode and one thing that keeps striking out at me was when they were in the Shadow Proclamation and the woman noticed the bug on Donna's back. I hope that scene isn't forgotten in the finale.

I just hope it's not a hint the whole thing is in an alternate reality, because that would be awful.

Yes it would. I actually hope they go through with the regeneration and everything we were told from just movies in 2009 to DT being back would be the greatest cover-up since Moore killed Starbuck on BSG, probably even moreso. Also, it would mean more Who in 2009 and given this is RTD final episode and Moffatt is taking over, why not go to the 11th Doctor now. DT was good, but this is a show that's always been about change and I didn't think I would like ten but he was great. Time for a change though. God I wish 9 was in it more than one season than it would be really competition as to who I liked better.

 

[Admiral_Young]

OMG OMG OMG!! I said the same thing last week and I mean it again this series has been bloody fantasic! Seeing Harriet Jones again was cool, especially her sacrifice, and her bringing all of the Doctor's companion's together was a nice touch on RTD's part in giving her redemption, her dialouge with Jack was great! Martha working with UNIT is a very cool idea...as was hearing the Dalek line "MUST EXTERMINATE UNIT!!!" with the UNIT soldiers firing on the two Daleks. Finally seeing what the Shadow Proclamation was or is was very cool...Rose feeling jealous and left out during the webcam conversation was funny and the heartbreaking scene when she and the Doctor are about to reunite made me cry, stupid lone Dalek coming out of nowhere. I like everyone else am curious about the Doctor's regeneration...they made a point to show the Doctor's severed hand again during this episode and when he began his regeneration he holds it up right in the middle of the shot. I'm curious though...is this the second time that a Doctor has regenerated into his same incarnation without changing form? I am referring back to "The Last of the Time Lords" when he regenerated to defeat the Master. Speaking of the Master and this has already probably been brought up in the thread but did anyone else hear The Sound of Drums in the telephone signal? Outstanding episode and I'm looking forward to watching the finale tomorrow.

 

[Messianni]

I'm curious though...is this the second time that a Doctor has regenerated into his same incarnation without changing form? I am referring back to "The Last of the Time Lords" when he regenerated to defeat the Master.

No, as he merely rejuvinated, rather than regenerated, his current form. He was just aged by 900 years that turned him into Dobby Doctor so once the aging process was reversed he returned back to his previous state.

 

[Faylinn]

Speaking of the Master and this has already probably been brought up in the thread but did anyone else hear The Sound of Drums in the telephone signal?

Yeah, I heard the beeping signal too - I assume that Harriet Jones created the sub-wave network from the Archangel(sp?) Network the Master used in S3 to send subliminal messages all over the world. Even though he's gone, that network and those satellites are probably still in place.

 

[Admiral_Young]

That would be a good guess although I was under the impression that the Master was responsible for creating the Archangel network and all of that was reverted when the year was erased but I guess someone else could still create it. So then I am right in assuming this will be the first time the Doctor has regenerated into the same incarnation...If it does turn out to be the Tenth still (masterful job by the BBC if it doesn't)? Also I'm guessing that the explanation will have something to do with his hand since they've made a big deal of pointing it out.

 

[David cgc]

Well, the Archangel Network was set up well before the Master became Prime Minister. Long enough in advance so that all of the cell phones on the planet were wired into it, which in Doctor Who's world means at least, like, a week. Still, it needed to be in place so no one would notice that Harold Saxon was a big fake.

 

[Guy Gardener]

18 months.

Would the archangel network work against Daleks? You wouldn't have to do much and the unaffected Dalek's would start purging the "Abominations" but then, we all know it only takes one Dalek to devastate the planet... So tricking it into suicide wouldn't be too difficult with the Timelords telepathic machine.

Forcing one Dalek to say to another something as innocuous as '"I love you" to a near by Dalek it had never had the heart to admit such feelings before, and they'd be homophobically deathraying the hell out of each other.

That would be astoundingly more affective than sending out an sos to a bloke who may or may not be listening,.

 

[Timby]

That would be a good guess although I was under the impression that the Master was responsible for creating the Archangel network and all of that was reverted when the year was erased

As Guy Gardener pointed out, the "year that never was" refers to the year that took place in-between the climax of The Sound of Drums and the climax of Last of the Time Lords. The Archangel Network was set up long before that -- during the time period between when the Master traveled back to 2007-era Earth and when the Doctor, Jack and Martha traveled back.

Forcing one Dalek to say to another something as innocuous as '"I love you" to a near by Dalek it had never had the heart to admit such feelings before, and they'd be homophobically deathraying the hell out of each other.

I would pay a small amount of money to see this.

 

[Harry Palmer]

I'd like to see Daleks versus the Toclafane. I wonder how the Daleks would hold up against tech from three trillion years in the future.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If the Daleks wanted tech from three trillion years in the future then they would go and get it. The same with the Gallifreians... The only people with more advanced tech than the Daleks and the Timelords have no interest in the universe at large to stop the Daleks and Timelords overt power posturing, and woah be tide if those bossy so and sos bring their BS to the doorsteps of these impressive but insulated cultures that the Daleks and the Timelords wouldn't be schooled in where and when they are welcome to be obnoxious?

It's the same with the Borg. They can only take tech from people they can beat up, so why don't the people who can beat the Borg up stand up for the little guys getting assimilated? Really it's also like when the Klingons and Kirk were kicking the crap out of each other in Organian Space...

Darfur anyone?