Doctor Who – 4x12 – The Stolen Earth (Grade/Discuss)

[Bob The Skutter]

When it failed, it failed spectacularly (witness, the "Dear God I'm going into a diabetic coma" street scene with the Doctor and Rose, yeah, I hated that bit only a whole lot).

I know the writer shouldn't really have to tell you his intention, but I believe that scene was supposed to be over the top, with RTD's comment about that scene, and how all romances should end with the Dalek appearing and killing them off.

Am I the only one going to fess up that they liked that scene? Stupid Dalek with its bad timing.

I liked the Dalek's timing... and I liked the way it took a second for it to sink in, before he started running. But it was overly cheesy.

 

[the Dagman]

For the love of stopwatches, why in the hell were Ianto and Gwen firing machine guns at the Daleks when they're surrounded by frickin' ALIEN TECHNOLOGY?!

I guess Jack took the only BFG in the joint.

(Loved the episode overall, of course, and I'm looking forward to the finale. I missed the Torchwood team more than I thought, so it was a bonus to see them there - I've been avoiding spoilers, so I didn't know they'd have such a prominent role in the episode.)

I thought that too

Maybe Jack keeps all the big guns in his safe and didn't leave them the key!

The gun Jack used looked to be the same gun he used against the Daleks at the end of series 1. The one shot and it was done gun before he switched to bullets and got killed. He may have retrieved it after resurrection and jumped back in time with it from that future space station.

Perhaps he had it plugged into and recharging from the rift? If so, he may now have more than the one shot he used this ep.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Yeah, I think it's the TARDIS which is going to bite it too, which means reset button.

Hells they could reverse the timewar if Caan left a path others can follow... Which would mean, that we're back to McGhan.

I definitely think the "most faithful companion" is a reference to the TARDIS. Wouldn't it be awesome if the TARDIS sacrificed itself to bring the Doctor back to a restored Gallifrey? And the Doctor would be still be able to travel since the other Time Lords could either fix the TARDIS or give him a new one.

 

[jbny67]

Yeah, I think it's the TARDIS which is going to bite it too, which means reset button.

Hells they could reverse the timewar if Caan left a path others can follow... Which would mean, that we're back to McGhan.

I definitely think the "most faithful companion" is a reference to the TARDIS. Wouldn't it be awesome if the TARDIS sacrificed itself to bring the Doctor back to a restored Gallifrey? And the Doctor would be still be able to travel since the other Time Lords could either fix the TARDIS or give him a new one.

I believe the proper phrase would be grow him a new one.

 

[David cgc]

Not only that, but the regeneration position of choice seems to be with a legs-wide-apart and arms-out stance (even before the actual regeneration happens)...when the Master regenerates in Utopia, we see him almost deliberately arrange his body in this fashion.

I think that mostly comes down to a change in timing of the effects. In PotW, the effect starts right as the Doctor begins to throw his arms out and spasm backwards, better selling the idea that he's be forced into this position by the tremendous amount of energy running through his body. In Utopia and TSE, the effect starts only after the character has "assumed the position" and is holding still, which is easier on the effects people who don't have to make the shooting glow move around as much, but makes the characters look silly for throwing themselves into this contortion before anything actually happens.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Finally watched it (having only just returned from the beach) and holy shit that was pure excellence!

Where to begin, where to begin? One of my biggest fears coming into this episode was it being overcrowded, but I was pleasantly pleased with how well balanced the episode was and how it handled all of the characters. I think everyone had about an equal share of screen time and all of them utilized it wonderful (except for one gripe with Rose, but I'll get to that later).

Along with all of the companions and their respective families, we've finally seen the return of Davros. I was both excited and hesitant about his return. While I love Genesis of the Daleks, I never liked his subsequent repeated resurrections and returns, although I think Remembrance of the Daleks utilized him well and didn't feature him until the end in a face-off with The Seventh Doctor. That all being said, I was impressed by him in this episode. We got a quick backstory for him during the Time War and how he survived (and I'm so VERY glad it was Caan and not Daleks from the universe Rose was stuck in). Additionally, he proved once again how horrifying and monomaniacal he can by removing his own flesh as means of rebuilding his creation. I feel that this episode also managed to strike a strong balance of usage for the Daleks and Davros and additionally managed to make both of them terrifying again.

As I said last week with "Midnight," I actually enjoyed seeing Rose again because she had matured. For the most part, I liked her here except I hated how she briefly reverted to her "School Reunion" behavior. "I was first!" (in regards to Martha). Sorry, Rose dear, but Sarah Jane was before you and SHE was far from first! That really grated on my nerves, but otherwise I don't mind Rose being back (altough the running moment in the street made me gag a bit).

And before you think I've forgotten her, I loved the return and the ultimate sacrifice of Harriet Jones. I always liked her, even though I disagree with her actions in "The Christmas Invasion," although I understand her position and why she stuck to it. It was wonderful how she was the one who brought everyone together (except for Rose for hand waving reasons). As for her sub-wave network, I can only assume the "Mr. Cooper Foundation" is somehow related to Mr. Cooper (Clive Swift) from "Voyage of the Damned." I certainly hope we learn more about that in the next episode (even if it's just a few lines).

And now for a list of additional random thoughts I had throughout the episode:

The BEES! I knew that was going to be something, but NNOOOO everyone said that has nothing to do with anything because it's actually happening!

I loved Sarah Jane's comment to Mr. Smith about fanfare when appearing.

The big money shot of all of the planets as seen from the Earth's surface was absolutely jawdropping! I want THAT as my wallpaper now.

For the first time ever in Doctor Who (both classic and current), a guest cast was partially included to give special honors to the important characters who returned. I thought that was awesome.

Richard Dawkins' cameo was fantastic.

I loved Luke's little impish grin upon seeing tons of ships coming to Earth. Sarah Jane does not approve.

Along with the aforementioned money shot, the hologram sequence was also pure brilliance. They really went all out for this finale.

Murray Gold's music was also at its finest. I love the Davros theme.

Children of Time. 'Nuff said.


Lastly: Did they really manage to keep the casting of a new actor as The Doctor a complete secret? I certainly hope so because I really don't want some cop out preventing, averting, or whatever else The Doctor from regenerating. Also, SARAH JANE MUST NOT DIE! If she dies, there will be blood.

I simply cannot wait for next week's episode, although I really, really hope it's not a repeat of last year's finale (first part being fantastic and the second being a huge disappointment). NO RESET BUTTONS please!

In the immortal words of John Locke, I'm going to need to watch that again.

(And now for the long and fun process of catching up with this thread and the rest of the forum!)

 

[wamdue]

Sarah Jane dying seems problematic given that she she is filming the 2nd series of her spin-off at the moment.

 

[jbny67]

Sarah Jane dying seems problematic given that she she is filming the 2nd series of her spin-off at the moment.

Spoiler: Journeys End & Sarah's Fate

The scene shown in this clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvUADRpZX2g
Shows that Sarah will survive her meeting with the Daleks at the end of the last episode. Micky is there as well.

 

[wamdue]

lol is that the Blue Peter one?

 

[jbny67]

lol is that the Blue Peter one?

That's the one.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What was it from Fires of Pompeii? "Your name is written across the Medusa cascade"?

That's totally prince of darkness (Caan called him the Lord of darkness... Was he rreally talking about the Doctor as it's them who is putting out suns? Isn't it?) if the cellphone message was traveling back in time tot he point where he and the Master sealed it... A very young looking Hartnel lookalike.

The Master also said he was "there" when the Emperor activated the Crucible... the Planet engine was also referred to as a crucible. how many times have they attempted to do this?

I suppose to become the supreme Dalek you have to be more like everyone one else than everyone one else. Is davros in charge, or the Supreme dalek? And doesn't it seem like Davros is a Mum?

 

[Count Zero]

OMFG!! They killed the Doctor, the bastards! This is totally selfish of me but I really, really hope that this was not the end of Ten. David Tennant does such a fantastic job of portraying the Doctor. It will be one long week...

I wonder how they'll resolve all this. We barely touched on the main threads in the story line. There's so much content in this episode: things referenced over the course of the series finally shown on screen (Medusa Cascade, Shadow Proclamation), weird science concepts, the return of Davros, a crazy Dalek, as many recurring and spin-off characters as possible etc.

Wilf was great. "The green bastards! You go back inside, they always take the women first."

There's one thing that puzzles me. To whom did Harriet Jones lose the election? I was under the impression that due to the events in Last of the Timelords Harold Saxon never existed except for the Doctor and those around him. Wouldn't people start to wonder what happened to their prime minister? Was this adressed in one of the spin offs or somewhere else?

 

[jbny67]

There's one thing that puzzles me. To whom did Harriet Jones lose the election? I was under the impression that due to the events in Last of the Timelords Harold Saxon never existed except for the Doctor and those around him. Wouldn't people start to wonder what happened to their prime minister? Was this adressed in one of the spin offs or somewhere else?

Time didn't roll back that far. He still was elected. I believe things went back to shortly after the American president was killed.

 

[Romulan_spy]

Wilf was great. "The green bastards! You go back inside, they always take the women first."

Wilf had some great lines. I also loved when Rose asked about a webcam and Wilf says "she won't let me. She says they're naughty!".

 

[The Nth Doctor]

^ Beyond Fantastic? Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious?

Brilliant! That should be an option for next week's episode.

WOWWOWWOWWOWWOWWOW!!!!!!!!!!

I loved the small reference too the Daleks already trying too move the earth from the Hartnell era, or if you like the Dalek invasion earth 2150 movie...

Oh and what can i say about Davro's....welcome back old friend....

A lot of the Dalek rants are quoted from old stories too (the line about 'the males, the females, the descendants' comes right from Dalek Invasion of Earth).

Oh, duh, I had forgotten that line was from that serial. Great line either way.

Was very good! I wouldn't be supprised though if Tennant left though as this is the end of the RTD era and all the characters are gonna move on, sort of like a clean sweep. A question though what happened to the other member of Torchwood as I never watched the last series. Did they die?

Yep, Gwen even said something along the lines of "We'll go out fighting, like Owen and Tosh."

Yeah, that was a lovely tribute to those two characters.

Oh RTD, why do you wait until your time is up to start writing so well?

I prefer to think of it as Davies going out with a bang and leaving at the crest of the wave. I far prefer that than slowly whittling away (and before this season, he has had some very good episodes along with his crappy ones).

I thought a Dalek wep killed a timelord outright ?

We've never seen a situation (on screen, I don't know about audios or books) where a Dalek successfully hits a Time Lord, so we don't have any idea of what kind of effect it would have.

Another thing about the Shadow Proclaimation, they've not heard of the Timelords other than through legend? They've not been part of the Time War, seems a tad unlikely (although quite plausible). It makes them sound a bit like Scully against the Doctor's Mulder.

Funny you should say that. I thought Donna's mum was acting a lot like Scully to Wilf's Mulder.

Also, one of the missing planets was "Callufrax Minor" (sp?). Wasn't the name of the "moving planet" in Tom Baker's Key to Time episode The Pirate Planet also named Callufrax? Nice homage to the concept, if true.

DUH! How could I miss that! That's one of my favorite Fourth Doctor stories and everything!

BTW, did anyone notice that Jack was using the BFG from PoTW? I'm assuming he ramped it up a bit but I'm sure that's it.

Ha! I thought that gun looked familiar but I didn't dwell on it too much at the time...

Dalek: "My vision is NOT impaired" Nice dig a Bakers Doctors hat trick.

Yeah, that was a great moment!

And the bees were great. That sort of reminded me of the dolphins in the Hitchhiker's Guide.

Heh, I hadn't thought of that, but that's a cool parallel.

In response to those complaining about the Time Lords looking like idiots....this is something new? With the exceptions of the Doctor, the Master, and Romana, they've looked like idiots ever since The Three Doctors.

And Drax.

But yes, you're absolutely right. The Time Lord society has always been portrayed as a dusty, crumbling, society who clearly couldn't see pass the end of their noses (see what I did there?). For them to screw up royally in the Time War is not a big stretch.

^ I agree with Starkers other than Jenny, 3 (out of 4) regenerations so far have been in the TARDIS.

Actually, what I really find odd about the regeneration scenes is that every Time Lord in the New Series seems to insist on regenerating standing up. In this episode we see the Tenth Doctor insistent on hauling himself up off the floor to a standing position for this purpose. Not only that, but the regeneration position of choice seems to be with a legs-wide-apart and arms-out stance (even before the actual regeneration happens)...when the Master regenerates in Utopia, we see him almost deliberately arrange his body in this fashion.

This seems to differ from the old series, where most of the time, the Doctor regenerates lying down.

This has really bugged me as well. All of The Doctors in the classic series (and movie) were lying down when they regenerated so why are they all standing now? Dramatic effect, I suppose.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x12 – The Stolen Earth (Grade/Discuss)

The Torchwood scenes felt like an episode of Torchwood,

I was surprised by that, because RTD's script for Torchwood, "Everything Changes," was one of the weaker scripts in the first season, and I felt like he didn't "get" Torchwood. The one thing that felt wrong with the Torchwood scenes was Jack's fatalistic reaction to the Daleks, because if anyone should know better, he should. Everything else, though, was spot on, from Ianto's sarcastic one-liners, to Gwen's suicidal charge with the machine gun. Gwen rocks my socks.

When it failed, it failed spectacularly (witness, the "Dear God I'm going into a diabetic coma" street scene with the Doctor and Rose, yeah, I hated that bit only a whole lot). Unfortunately, it failed more than it worked for me, and it failed with more of the Doctor's scenes than anyone else's. Curious.

The first half of the episode, with the Doctor trying to find Earth, worked. His running away from the Shadow Proclamation was entirely in character. (See "The Five Doctors" and how he abdicates for a similar situation.)

After that, I didn't have a problem with the Doctor, per se, except for what happened due to Rose.

I'm going to toss out an idea here. Rose breaking through the walls between the worlds was what broke the timelock on the Time War. She weakened reality enough that Dalek Caan was able to rescue Davros. If Rose hadn't broken through the walls to get back to the Doctor, I feel like none of this would have happened. So, it's all Rose's fault.

 

[David cgc]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x12 – The Stolen Earth (Grade/Discuss)

Everything we've seen seems to indicate that she's only dicking around with reality in response to the Coming Darkness. So unless it's some sort of infinite loop where Rose crosses Universe to help the Doctor with the Darkness/Daleks, which weakens reality enough for the Darkness/Dalek situation to start up in the first place, which then prompts Rose to cross Universes, ad infinitum, it wouldn't fit with what's happened so far.

 

[ATimson]

But yeah - Torchwood London had a big-ass gun that could shoot an alien ship out of the sky, but Torchwood Cardiff (who supposedly scavenged the ruins of Torchwood London) only has one BFG capable of blowing the lid off a Dalek? That's a disgrace. I thought you were 'arming the human race', Harkness.

Arming the Human race against the future. Not the present.

 

[Harry Palmer]

Wow that was good.

 

[ATimson]

I'm going to toss out an idea here. Rose breaking through the walls between the worlds was what broke the timelock on the Time War. She weakened reality enough that Dalek Caan was able to rescue Davros. If Rose hadn't broken through the walls to get back to the Doctor, I feel like none of this would have happened. So, it's all Rose's fault.

Maybe. It's just as much the Doctor's for not killing Caan at the end of "Evolution of the Daleks", though. I know, I know that it's not his way... but none of this would've happened had Caan not been free to rescue Davros.