Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current eps.)

[The Wormhole]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

I would support bringing Gallifrey back for an episode or so. But only because it would give us an opportunity to hear that awesome Gallifrey theme from the S3 finale arc again.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

How often have the Daleks actually broken the time lock? The one in "Dalek" just randomly crashed and burned out of the destruction as I recall so that doesn't really count... I guess the Emperor in "Parting of Ways" escaped somehow? I forget. And then the Cult of Skaro was in the Time Lord Prison that Torchwood/Cybermen accidently unleashed, so I don't know if I would really count that. And Davros was rescued from the time lock but in the process Caan (CAAAAAAAAN!!!) went inside and deformed. So it only happened twice then?

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

I'm absolutely in love with this series and have been since Tom Baker. However, this whole Time War, paint the series into a corner and make the Doctor a wandering puddle of loneliness, is starting to wear a bit thin for me.

Fair enough on the loneliness part, but I've never understood the "paint the series into a corner" or "I'm over the Doctor being the last" arguments. It's just part of the series now. Saying that it's painting them into a corner or that you're over it is like saying that having the U.S.S. Enterprise be a starship that travels the galaxy is painting Star Trek into a corner and you're over it.

Something will eventually have to be done within the series to open that plotline back up or else it will stagnate.

But... it's not a plotline. It's a background element. It's not meant to be dynamic. It's meant to just be part of the background of the story.

 

[Starkers]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

^I wouldn't disagree, up to a point, but I do think the valuable part the Timelords have to play is that they act as the one group of people even the Doctor is wary of. The one group who, if needs be, could stop him if they chose to. The difficulty is using them rarely enough that they retain mystery and awesomeness...always assuming they did come back.

 

[Rocketman]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

Agreed. The Doctor as a Lonely God is just an invitation for poor writing. As good as NuWho is, It's only rarely that I feel afraid for the Doctor's life. He can't die, he can't even lose.

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

^I wouldn't disagree, up to a point, but I do think the valuable part the Timelords have to play is that they act as the one group of people even the Doctor is wary of. The one group who, if needs be, could stop him if they chose to. The difficulty is using them rarely enough that they retain mystery and awesomeness...always assuming they did come back.

Honestly, I don't think it's even possible to have them as players in the Whoniverse without their degenerating into lameness.

 

[Starkers]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

I dunno, I reckon RTD could have pulled it off, and Moffat still could.

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

I dunno, I reckon RTD could have pulled it off, and Moffat still could.

I don't agree. The Time Lords have derived their power on the program from their mystery; they are interesting because of their absence, because our imaginations run away and let us think of many different forms they could take.

When the Time Lords have been depicted on a regular basis, though, they quickly degenerated into boredom. In fact, it's the same principle as the Daleks -- they're far more powerful as villains if we don't run into them often, because our imaginations make them scarier than they themselves ever could be.

 

[Starkers]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

So the moral of story is...don't run into the Timelords too often?

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

So the moral of story is...don't run into the Timelords too often?

Or, better yet, get rid of them altogether and use them only in the occasional flashback sequences, to set the tone of them as a mysterious part of the background that the audience never actually sees but which always sounds impressive.

 

[rainbowjelyfish]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

I'm absolutely in love with this series and have been since Tom Baker. However, this whole Time War, paint the series into a corner and make the Doctor a wandering puddle of loneliness, is starting to wear a bit thin for me.

Fair enough on the loneliness part, but I've never understood the "paint the series into a corner" or "I'm over the Doctor being the last" arguments. It's just part of the series now. Saying that it's painting them into a corner or that you're over it is like saying that having the U.S.S. Enterprise be a starship that travels the galaxy is painting Star Trek into a corner and you're over it.

Something will eventually have to be done within the series to open that plotline back up or else it will stagnate.

But... it's not a plotline. It's a background element. It's not meant to be dynamic. It's meant to just be part of the background of the story.

I disagee. I loved the series when the Time Lords (plural) were an active and mysterious part of the WHO universe. To say that the permanent absence of the Time Lords is now just a part of the background of the story is to ignore all that came before the last 2 Doctors. Their no longer being involved is a very recent developement in the whole arc of the series. Extremely recent. Unlike the Enterprise non-arguement (the story started with the ship traveling the galaxy and thus there is no issue of it continuing to do that), the Time Lords have only been 'gone' from the series a very short time!

 

[rainbowjelyfish]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

Timelords done justice, with the kind of apocalyptic powers they had in The War Games, would fit right in with the New Series style of seeking a bigger and badder wolf. Used sparingly, and not in the psuedo Political-Catholism way they've done to death with since the 70's. They need to be supernatural and the Doctor's "worst fear". A threat capable of undoing his own history and splitting him forever from the extended family he's been building around him. Then back in the Doctor Who toybox, until the Moffat era reaches a critical mass too.

I completely agree!

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

I'm absolutely in love with this series and have been since Tom Baker. However, this whole Time War, paint the series into a corner and make the Doctor a wandering puddle of loneliness, is starting to wear a bit thin for me.

Fair enough on the loneliness part, but I've never understood the "paint the series into a corner" or "I'm over the Doctor being the last" arguments. It's just part of the series now. Saying that it's painting them into a corner or that you're over it is like saying that having the U.S.S. Enterprise be a starship that travels the galaxy is painting Star Trek into a corner and you're over it.

Something will eventually have to be done within the series to open that plotline back up or else it will stagnate.

But... it's not a plotline. It's a background element. It's not meant to be dynamic. It's meant to just be part of the background of the story.

I disagee. I loved the series when the Time Lords (plural) were an active and mysterious part of the WHO universe. To say that the permanent absence of the Time Lords is now just a part of the background of the story is to ignore all that came before the last 2 Doctors.

No one is arguing that it isn't a recent development relative to the history of the entire program. But to say that the permanent absence of the Time Lords is now part of the background is not to ignore all that came beforeThe Two Doctors; it is to acknowledge that the background of nuWho has changed from the background of the original series, in the same way that the background of Star Trek: The Motion Picture changed from the background of Star Trek: The Original Series.

Their no longer being involved is a very recent developement in the whole arc of the series. Extremely recent. Unlike the Enterprise non-arguement (the story started with the ship traveling the galaxy and thus there is no issue of it continuing to do that), the Time Lords have only been 'gone' from the series a very short time!

That doesn't mean that it's not part of the background of the series nowadays. When Star Trek: The Motion Picture was released, the new background elements -- Kirk's having become an admiral, Spock and McCoy leaving Starfleet, the Enterprise having gotten a refit, two years having passed since the end of the five-year mission -- were all very recent developments relative to the age of the Star Trek franchise. It had all, in the world of Star Trek, taken place in the course of an unseen two years.

Nonetheless, they remained background elements to the film. The film was not about the fact that Kirk had become an admiral, or that Spock had sought Kohlinar, or that McCoy had grown a 70s disco beard, or that the Enterprise had gone art deco on everyone. It was about the arrival of V'Ger and how that impacted the characters. The new background remained part of the background; it did not represent a plotline.

Background is background. Plotline is plotline. Will Moffat or RTD choose to undo the background element that is the extinction of the Time Lords? Perhaps they will. I do not know.

But make no mistake: The extinction of the Time Lords is a background element, not a plotline. As such, it is not necessarily meant to go anywhere or do anything. It's just a part of the Doctor's past.

 

[rainbowjelyfish]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

Background is background. Plotline is plotline. Will Moffat or RTD choose to undo the background element that is the extinction of the Time Lords? Perhaps they will. I do not know.

But make no mistake: The extinction of the Time Lords is a background element, not a plotline. As such, it is not necessarily meant to go anywhere or do anything. It's just a part of the Doctor's past.

Your point may have some validity. However... To say that "The extinction of the Time Lords is a background element, not a plotline" forces the question: what about the Dalaks? They too are "supposed" to be extinct. But--they keep turning up one way or another. My point is that if they can...why not the Time Lords. The "new" background/plotline of the series says (logically) that this must be a possibility for the series. If one--then the other. I suspect that eventually, and probably sparingly, the writers will find a way to use the Time Lords once again.

 

[Sci]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

Your point may have some validity. However... To say that "The extinction of the Time Lords is a background element, not a plotline" forces the question: what about the Dalaks? They too are "supposed" to be extinct. But--they keep turning up one way or another.

Sure. Like I said, the extinction of the Time Lords might be overturned somehow. Maybe it'll be retconned. I dunno. But right now, and for all of Series One through Four, it is background, and therefore not necessarily something that has to actually go anywhere. It could -- just like Star Trek could have changed its background and had the Enterprise blown up and have the rest of the series feature Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and the crew trapped on an island on an uncharted planet where there are polar bears and smoke monsters and weird guys with names that sound like allusions to 18th Century political philosophers --
but it doesn't mean that there's any real storytelling obligation to change that background element.

 

[Rackon]

Re: Do you want to see more Time Lords? (spoilers up through current e

I've always hated the bloody Daleks and if I never see another it would be too soon.

OTOH, I adore the Gallifrey of The Deadly Assassin and the Time Lords. If used sparingly, and written cleverly, I would love to see more TLs and/or Gallifrey incorporated into Who, as flashbacks, new wrinkle or whatever. But it would need to be done very well.

"Gallifrey"...even the name sounds delightful and trips off the tongue.