What's there "to handle", really?
People love people. I don't think kids struggle to understand that.
Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?
- Thread starter Curios_Gelatin
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What's there "to handle", really?
People love people. I don't think kids struggle to understand that.
Porn is cheese for a trap. Always.
True love is just bad porn.
Children won't read Star Trek fanfiction.
What's Star Trek?
Brother on brother Frenching is what their happy place is.
Vampire Diaries and, to a far less extent "Supernatural".
I have enough cheese for every one.
Carry on.
True love is just bad porn.
Children won't read Star Trek fanfiction.
What's Star Trek?
Brother on brother Frenching is what their happy place is.
Vampire Diaries and, to a far less extent "Supernatural".
I have enough cheese for every one.
Carry on.
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conc. "agenda" - "Hollywood" always had an "agenda".
The “agenda” has changed from "let's please 15 year old white straight boys" a bit but that doesn’t make movies/series less unrealistic.
I hope the gay character will not be as cheesy as those in "Flash" etc. or stereotypical as in "Orphan Black". Especially the one from "Orphan Black" is nothing but the old Sissy cliché with the one difference that you’re supposed to take it seriously (more or less). I'm sure that helps a lot(!) when 15 year olds come out to their parents.
In US american/canadian shows most (all) of the gays are married. Straight characters are not married, they have different relationships and have a sexual life but gays are married nowerdays and – of course – monogamous. That also has hardly anything to do with gay "real life."
The “agenda” has changed from "let's please 15 year old white straight boys" a bit but that doesn’t make movies/series less unrealistic.
I hope the gay character will not be as cheesy as those in "Flash" etc. or stereotypical as in "Orphan Black". Especially the one from "Orphan Black" is nothing but the old Sissy cliché with the one difference that you’re supposed to take it seriously (more or less). I'm sure that helps a lot(!) when 15 year olds come out to their parents.
In US american/canadian shows most (all) of the gays are married. Straight characters are not married, they have different relationships and have a sexual life but gays are married nowerdays and – of course – monogamous. That also has hardly anything to do with gay "real life."
Nothing wrong with looking for a boo.
I think it's incredibly important that shows like Star Trek have LGBT crewmembers. It would help a lot for LGBT kids to see someone like them on television being treated as anyone else. Kids are a lot smarter and more aware than a lot of people want to imagine. As a side effect, maybe more people would be more accepting if they understood that other groups aren't so different than them. It's a shame that Steven Universe a cartoon intended for children is far more progressive than Star Trek given its legacy, it's even more of a shame that a lot of fans would want to keep it in the past due to their own lack of understanding.
It would be simple and easy. If audiences wanted more, they could deal with the backstory in an episode because every crewmember seems to get something like that during the run or put it in a book. Memory Alpha and Memory Beta need to pad out their entries with something.
I knew I was trans when I was 5. I didn't understand it, but I knew I was different. I was also watching Star Trek: TNG with my parents. Maybe it could have made a difference.
And I'm fine with all that. But again, the setting is two-hundred-plus years in the future when, presumably, the acceptance level will be so high nobody gives it a second thought. Half the country already thinks it's "normal". In fifty years, or even just twenty years from now, all but a few holdouts will think the same way.
What I don't want to see, sadly what I suspect Hollywood writers will give us, are plot lines or sub-plots every-other episode where the LGBT character's orientation becomes an issue of some sort or another, where another crewman says/does something that proves intolerance and therefore must be corrected, or someone misinterprets something that is said and somehow offends the LGBT character, or whatever the message of the month is.
And I also worry about who the casting director picks for the part. As someone up-topic mentioned, there are few likable realistic LGBT characters on TV today. Take the Rusty character on Major Crimes. The whiny teenage angst was bad enough, but after he came-out, every freaking time he was on-screen for the entire next season, it was like getting hit with a hammer as they tried to get their message across. Can you think of a more unsympathetic character to carry the LGBT torch? And yes, that show's producer openly admitted he had/has an agenda.
Star Trek, and sci-fi in general, has a long history of attacking social problems. But it's always done it in a way that doesn't directly use today's events. They dealt with racial bigotry, religious intolerance, drug addition, and a whole host of other issues without once resorting to literally calling out race, religion, etc. etc. etc. Do today's Hollywood writers know how to do that anymore, can they do that with LGBT issues without putting on a rainbow parade? Maybe, but I fear they don't.
Now, I can envision an episode plotline in which they interact with an alien species (Klingons, perhaps??) that don't have (or claim to not have) LGBT people in their society and thus are confused (or offended) by the character's lifestyle. That would be a genuine tactful way of expressing the issue. Done right, it could even be an interesting multi-episode story arc.
What I don't want to see, sadly what I suspect Hollywood writers will give us, are plot lines or sub-plots every-other episode where the LGBT character's orientation becomes an issue of some sort or another, where another crewman says/does something that proves intolerance and therefore must be corrected, or someone misinterprets something that is said and somehow offends the LGBT character, or whatever the message of the month is.
And I also worry about who the casting director picks for the part. As someone up-topic mentioned, there are few likable realistic LGBT characters on TV today. Take the Rusty character on Major Crimes. The whiny teenage angst was bad enough, but after he came-out, every freaking time he was on-screen for the entire next season, it was like getting hit with a hammer as they tried to get their message across. Can you think of a more unsympathetic character to carry the LGBT torch? And yes, that show's producer openly admitted he had/has an agenda.
Star Trek, and sci-fi in general, has a long history of attacking social problems. But it's always done it in a way that doesn't directly use today's events. They dealt with racial bigotry, religious intolerance, drug addition, and a whole host of other issues without once resorting to literally calling out race, religion, etc. etc. etc. Do today's Hollywood writers know how to do that anymore, can they do that with LGBT issues without putting on a rainbow parade? Maybe, but I fear they don't.
Now, I can envision an episode plotline in which they interact with an alien species (Klingons, perhaps??) that don't have (or claim to not have) LGBT people in their society and thus are confused (or offended) by the character's lifestyle. That would be a genuine tactful way of expressing the issue. Done right, it could even be an interesting multi-episode story arc.
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So you haven't seen it done, so it must be impossible?
Like I said, a cartoon can do it. Mr. Robot has done it, Sense8 has done it and there are plenty of others. Maybe you should watch more shows before proclaiming it isn't possible.
Like I said, a cartoon can do it. Mr. Robot has done it, Sense8 has done it and there are plenty of others. Maybe you should watch more shows before proclaiming it isn't possible.
Where the blip did I ever say it would be impossible???
Of course it can be done. I never said it can't. Both TOS and TNG handled all sorts of social issues fairly well. I do think, however, given the attitude of the modern-day Hollywood writers / producers of that I've crossed paths with on-line, it's less likely that they will present these issues in a genuine, meaningful way.
Of course it can be done. I never said it can't. Both TOS and TNG handled all sorts of social issues fairly well. I do think, however, given the attitude of the modern-day Hollywood writers / producers of that I've crossed paths with on-line, it's less likely that they will present these issues in a genuine, meaningful way.
Other shows already do as I pointed out.
Also LGBT people are normal, putting it in scare quotes is incredibly insulting.
Also LGBT people are normal, putting it in scare quotes is incredibly insulting.
Lifestyle? Some have terrible taste in clothes, and more than a few have questionable musical tastes. Their sexuality isn't a lifestyle. Your 'troubles' in understanding might be lessened by starting there.
This could make for an interesting episode, but I would dislike the use of Klingons in it, as I always imagined them as the type of people who would encourage homosexuality within their troops, to contribute to morale, as was the case with some (?) ancient Greek armies. Also I like to think that the major states in Trek have achieved a certain level of acceptance of LGBT people, or people of another ethnicy. Of course that is all speculation and head-canon.
It just came to my mind: Star Trek had a homosexual character already: Kira form the parallel universe, which - of course - was nothing more than the stereotype of "evil people are also undecided about their sexuality".
@Actually Jewel Staite: I have always liked Willow's coming out in Buffy and the way they went along with her being a lesbian. Willow and Tara were believable. I also liked the original UK Queer as folk. Both series are quite old today.
So I agree it can be done properly but I'm still sceptical. There are so many cringeworthy appearances, where I say: better nothing than that. I've mentioned some above and can add one more: Batgirl's gay-best-friend from the comic "Batman: The killing Joke". Or gay couples where you might miss the point if you haven't read about it. Like the new gay Sulu, "gays", who just touch each other arms briefly.
As for a plot of people having "problems" with a homosexual or transsexual person. It shouldn't be an issue any more. It should be some thing for the background like the Miles/Keiko story they had.
So I would not like to see episodes centering about homosexuality and how foreign species deal with it. It might be some kind of "updated" version of TNG's "The outcast".
Well, if they will give us some info about the cast finally it will be a little clearer what to expect. I wonder if they will have another "beautiful woman" (as Berman has put it) in a jumpsuit. If that's the case I'll expect the worst.
@Actually Jewel Staite: I have always liked Willow's coming out in Buffy and the way they went along with her being a lesbian. Willow and Tara were believable. I also liked the original UK Queer as folk. Both series are quite old today.
So I agree it can be done properly but I'm still sceptical. There are so many cringeworthy appearances, where I say: better nothing than that. I've mentioned some above and can add one more: Batgirl's gay-best-friend from the comic "Batman: The killing Joke". Or gay couples where you might miss the point if you haven't read about it. Like the new gay Sulu, "gays", who just touch each other arms briefly.
As for a plot of people having "problems" with a homosexual or transsexual person. It shouldn't be an issue any more. It should be some thing for the background like the Miles/Keiko story they had.
So I would not like to see episodes centering about homosexuality and how foreign species deal with it. It might be some kind of "updated" version of TNG's "The outcast".
Well, if they will give us some info about the cast finally it will be a little clearer what to expect. I wonder if they will have another "beautiful woman" (as Berman has put it) in a jumpsuit. If that's the case I'll expect the worst.
Better still if only Europe had stayed in its lane and left the continent alone. Star trek might be set in Brighton instead of San Francisco
So you can't write a gay character, because you "have no clue how to describe their lives properly?"
How the hell do you write a female character, then?
Or anybody who isn't basically just YOU?
Because it's all the exact same technique. If you can do one non-terribly, you should have the capacity to do the others equally well.
The setting is some two hundred plus years from now when no one gives being LGBT a second thought, but unfortunately, the show is being broadcast NOW, when too many people do give it too much thought, socially and legislatively. If these "Hollywood" (as if no one anywhere else has a progressive slant) writers are going to attack social problems, the people who'll get all riled up about it will most likely be the ones causing the problems, as that's the whole point.
The problem isn't with those characters, it's just bad writing. Especially The KIlling Joke, that whole opening part is one of the worst pieces of crap I've seen. It's like they were aware of the issues people had with the original comic, wanted to address it, but then made every single bad decision they could. It was astounding.
TOS dealt with race despite it being a thing of the past with humans. It can be done.
How would you reconcile that (in-universe of course) with the observed fact that they obviously DO give heterosexuality " a second thought?"
They openly gossip about straight relationship, have occassional straight sexual encounters, talk about opposite sex dating.
But nothing in the same line when it comes to gay activity?
Yes, that is what I am afraid of. We haven't seen (or even heard) anything yet. Of course it can be done but it can also turn out to be a big failure. Although I guess that the quality of the gay etc. character-arc would correlate with the rest of the writing.
Well, we'll see.
I didn't know the comic and only read about it afterwards but I found it terribly bad.
Good writing is good writing, it doesn't matter who or what the characters are. The same goes for bad writing. I don't think we should avoid certain kinds of characters because some writers are awful.
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