Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[Lord Garth]

Legitimate question. What do you even like about Star Trek because all you seem to do is pretend that the rest of the Star Trek franchise is boring and that Discovery is the only entertaining thing about Trek and that Discovery is the only route that Trek could go in to keep it "entertaining"?

I'm a hardcore TOS Fan. The TOS Movies were my introduction to Star Trek, so I saw those first, then the series. It turns out I'm also a hardcore DSC fan. But if you put a gun to my head and forced me to choose between the two, I'd choose TOS.

I like TNG, DS9, and VOY but I'm not hardcore into them like TOS and DSC. The TNG films are a mixed bag. First Contact is far-and-away the best of the four.

I like the 2009 film and Beyond. Not so much Into Darkness.

I'm not a fan of ENT. I stopped watching after six episodes. Saw a few during the fourth season. Then binged the whole series in 2010. I haven't watched it since and feel no burning urge to revisit it.

If you want lowest common denominator garbage, go watch Marvel or DC movies or watch Transformers crap.

I tuned out comic books movies after 2010 with very few exceptions. I'm not into them at all. Transformers? All I can say is that I used to watch it in the '80s when I was in elementary school. Before becoming a Star Trek fan in 1991, it was Transformers that I was the big fan of. In fact, when I saw the Ninja Turtles movie in 1990, a 10-year-old Lord Garth was wondering what a live-action Transformers movie would be like... aaaaand then several years later I found out and wish I hadn't. The Transformers movies are not my thing at all. After the third movie, I finally managed to let go of my childhood and haven't seen any of the movies since.

 

[fireproof78]

From the number crunching done here before, despite being a global show, it's quite likely that Discovery is actually the least watched Star Trek show by quite some margin.

Then it will die, as it should if it can stand on its own.

 

[cultcross]

Each Trek series to date has been the least watched ever. That's not unique to DSC. Changing media environments have pretty much dictated that - there's just so much mroe to watch. If anything, DSC may get a slight boost over ENT from being available on demand and easy access globally, but whether that makes up for a decade of declining viewership is anyone's guess. Netflix don't release numbers though so I doubt we'll ever know what the genuine ratings have been until/unless the show is cancelled.

 

[Lord Garth]

None of the previous Star Trek series would get the kinds of ratings today they would've when they actually aired. The trend for ratings for everything is downward, downward, downward. Across the board. The more options there are out there and the less people watch TV conventionally means fewer and fewer people will watch the same things and what passes for "good" ratings now is not the same as it was before.

The other thing to consider is: unless you can hook up your computer to a big-screen monitor, how many people want to sit down and watch things on their computer for a prolonged period?

I have my computer right next to my TV but not everyone does and not everyone wants to go through the hassle. And it's the psychological thing. I think people are more apt to watch something if it's on a TV and not a computer screen. I have no hard data to back this up, but I'm basing it off habits of people I've observed in this day-and-age.

I'm willing to bet more people would see Discovery in America if it were on Netflix. How many more? I don't know. But it would be more.

 

[WebLurker]

I'll ignore it because it's obvious they are lying. (like they've done, non-stop)
First and foremost they view Discovery as its own thing and it's own universe, this is how they've crafted it, this is how they talk about it 90% of the time even throughout that awful After Trek show, they then claim afterwards it's Prime because merchandising. That is all.

My understanding is that the official position is that it's in continuity with the prime universe, but they can retcon anything they want for their show for whatever reason. I see this as being somewhat mutually contradictory, but asking if their model works and makes logical sense is a different question.

If Discovery was Prime Timeline, why wasn't it planned from the get go to fit into the Prime Timeline and why, even by their own admission, do they have to wait till S2 to start fitting it into Prime? It makes no sense, it shows they viewed canon and setting as a distant afterthought.

I don't know the answer to that, but I have gotten the impression that the show did change hands a bit in production, so it could be that some stuff was locked into place that wouldn't've been had the final people in charge been in place from square one.

Here is the problem, you don't have to dumb everything down to absolute garbage to make it popular, this argument has NEVER held true because intelligent science fiction has always been popular. One of the most popular shows is Black Mirror which is vastly more intellegent than Discovery, The Expanse is massively popular, good science fiction movies are very popular, in fact movies like The Martian or Arrival pulled more money in than the Kelvin films.

And yet Star Wars is far more popular and makes more bank then any of them despite being the softest of soft sci-fi out there. (The moral of the story? There's room for both and oftentimes within the same franchise. After all, many of the most popular Trek stories are not the "intelligent" sci-fi ones).

Another point is The Orville, consistently has far higher audience scores than Discovery's mediocre audience scores, rated highly on US TV and has a viewership in the US at least, most likely dwarfing Discovery's numbers. From the number crunching done here before, despite being a global show, it's quite likely that Discovery is actually the least watched Star Trek show by quite some margin.

The idea that an actual Star Trek show wouldn't be popular, in an era where Science Fiction is actually on the upwards, doesn't hold water to me at all, all the evidence is stacked against the argument.

Franchise fatigue I believe is really what killed Star Trek in the end, but it's been over a decade since ENT and The Orville shows people want Star Trek again.

While franchise fatigue could be a thing, comparing a streaming only show to a broadcast TV program is not a comparison of equals.

I'm willing to bet more people would see Discovery in America if it were on Netflix. How many more? I don't know. But it would be more.

Yeah, I will watch it when a legal non-CBS Access option is made available.

 

[Gepard]

So, you know what bothered by about TLJ? How they character assassinated General Hux and turned him into a punching bag for

And made him far more memorable in the process. I barely even registered his presence in TFA. There's some fans saying Captain Canaday is how Hux should have been written, but I had to watch TLJ three times before I could even remember which character he was.

No, punching bag Hux will do fine for me.

 

[cultcross]

That's what the SS types are there for anyway, isn't it? To be bossed about and occasionally force choked.

 

[lawman]

Yeah, imho, TNG should not be the standard by which all other Treks are judged.

Of course not! TOS is the standard by which all other Treks are judged.

The other thing to consider is: unless you can hook up your computer to a big-screen monitor, how many people want to sit down and watch things on their computer for a prolonged period? ... I have my computer right next to my TV but not everyone does and not everyone wants to go through the hassle.

Umm... pretty easily done with a lowly HDMI cable. Even more easily done courtesy of a Chromecast or a Roku or the like, which is how almost everyone I know streams things to TV. No?

And made him far more memorable in the process. I barely even registered his presence in TFA. There's some fans saying Captain Canaday is how Hux should have been written, but I had to watch TLJ three times before I could even remember which character he was.

I'm not about to subject myself to three viewings of TLJ. So who is Canaday?...

 

[WebLurker]

That's what the SS types are there for anyway, isn't it? To be bossed about and occasionally force choked.

Based on some of the tie-ins (and the bit where he tries to assassinate Kylo Ren -- he stops when he realizes that Kylo is waking up), I think that Hux is more dangerous than his being dissed by Poe and being Kylo's punching bag would lead you to believe.

I'm not about to subject myself to three viewings of TLJ. So who is Canaday?...

He's the older, wiser officer in charge of the heavily armed capital ship that Poe and the bombers destroy in the opening battle (the one that leads to Rose's sister being killed and Poe being demoted).

 

[F. King Daniel]

The other thing to consider is: unless you can hook up your computer to a big-screen monitor, how many people want to sit down and watch things on their computer for a prolonged period?

I have my computer right next to my TV but not everyone does and not everyone wants to go through the hassle. And it's the psychological thing. I think people are more apt to watch something if it's on a TV and not a computer screen. I have no hard data to back this up, but I'm basing it off habits of people I've observed in this day-and-age.

Modern TVs will have apps to play the stuff right on the TV, no PC needed. Even if you have an older TV, there are cheap gizmos like Roku (which I use to watch DSC on Netflix here in the UK) or Amazon Fire sticks you plug in to get that functionality.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'll ignore it because it's obvious they are lying. (like they've done, non-stop)
First and foremost they view Discovery as its own thing and it's own universe, this is how they've crafted it, this is how they talk about it 90% of the time even throughout that awful After Trek show, they then claim afterwards it's Prime because merchandising. That is all.

If Discovery was Prime Timeline, why wasn't it planned from the get go to fit into the Prime Timeline and why, even by their own admission, do they have to wait till S2 to start fitting it into Prime? It makes no sense, it shows they viewed canon and setting as a distant afterthought.

I never seen someone in so much denial

 

[Amaris]

That's what the SS types are there for anyway, isn't it? To be bossed about and occasionally force choked.

As it should be.

[breathes evilly]

 

[Rahul]

None of the previous Star Trek series would get the kinds of ratings today they would've when they actually aired. The trend for ratings for everything is downward, downward, downward. Across the board. The more options there are out there and the less people watch TV conventionally means fewer and fewer people will watch the same things and what passes for "good" ratings now is not the same as it was before.

The other thing to consider is: unless you can hook up your computer to a big-screen monitor, how many people want to sit down and watch things on their computer for a prolonged period?

I have my computer right next to my TV but not everyone does and not everyone wants to go through the hassle. And it's the psychological thing. I think people are more apt to watch something if it's on a TV and not a computer screen. I have no hard data to back this up, but I'm basing it off habits of people I've observed in this day-and-age.

I'm willing to bet more people would see Discovery in America if it were on Netflix. How many more? I don't know. But it would be more.

And then there's shit like Game of Thrones, which more people watch than had a televisions in the 60s
It's not so much that "everything" has less viewers. It's just Star Trek isn't the juggernaut television show of it's time anymore. That spot is now taken by others - both in turns of viewers (GoT, but also generic sitcoms and procedurals have an INSANE following) and in turns of being the creative influencers (Breaking Bad or Stranger Things don't have that much viewers, but are insanely influential in pop-culture).
Star Trek had the extrrrrrreeeeme Luck to be that pop-cultural juggernaut TWICE - once TOS became popular in it's re-runs, and then again when TNG started the scifi-craze in the 90s.
And even after that, Star Trek, as a franchise, has proven to be extremely reliable and consistent. I doubt for example the GoT-spin offs will ever reach a similar popularity. As such, DIS is not the end-of-all. I hoped and expected it to be better, and with another creative team (and concept) it has the potential and already the fans to become so massively popular again. But if nothing else, DIS keeps the franchise alive, and not in a too bad condition overall.

 

[Lord Garth]

Old habits die hard. I'm glad I mentioned how I've been watching DSC. I'll have to look at my TV settings and see what's possible with CBS All Access. Thanks!

I switch the RGB cable from my computer monitor to my TV monitor. But then I get a stiff neck if I want to use my computer while I still have it hooked up to the TV. I blame that on laziness. If I can have CBS All Access on my TV and still use my computer on my computer monitor to do normal things, that's better.

My TV is a 2010 LG 42" Flat-Screen. Connects to Netflix and has some apps that I haven't looked at. I don't know if 2010 counts as "older" (probably), so I have to see if I could get an app on it that would take CBS All Access.

I know about HDMI but I still do RGB. I need to buy another HDMI cable. Anyway, that's too much about my stuff...

On another note: I'll have to look up how many people watch Game of Thrones. I assumed they were Breaking Bad numbers during its height. If they're more, that's interesting.

 

[Discofan]

Everything we buy now becomes old very fast. In fact, it's already old the day it is delivered.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Pretty much my whole point and differentiation from your scenario comes down to the parent not saying no...I.e the producers repeatedly saying ‘prime trek’ and also implying it. Do you see?

I see the producers told us that the show is set in the prime timeline, and it clearly is. I see that there is a small group of fans who had a very specific and also very erroneous expectation of what that actually MEANS, and thus they're angry about this.

It's literally the equivalent to the parent saying "No" and the kid hearing "Not unless you're really good and do all your chores and do all of your homework and clean your room."

We got exactly what they told us we would get; the thing is, we weren't actually told that much. There are those among us who filled in the gaps with their own wishful thinking, and now they're mad because they didn't get what they wanted.

 

[Lord Garth]

Everything we buy now becomes old very fast. In fact, it's already old the day it is delivered.

A TV with two knobs and an antenna. Those were Good Times. And sometimes I'd even catch reruns during the daytime of... Good Times!

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I'm much more annoyed that the Klingon War arc ended so poorly and abruptly with so little payoff except for the characters of L'Rell and Tyler/Voq. We spent an entire season starting a war that was then rarely seen onscreen except for some tactical maps and a few random skirmishes in deep space and then ended in the most "let's wrap this thing up over the next few weeks because we clearly didn't think this whole thing through very well" way imaginable.

Total agreement. I get that they're pushing the "Klingon ways are different" angle to explain how L'Rell could have gotten away with her little stunt, but it's not an altogether believable ending. They tried way too hard to push the urgency of a resolution and build a moral conflict for the crew to try and solve (We are Starfleet, we don't commit genocide!) but it's kind of obvious the solution they arrived at wouldn't actually WORK under those circumstances. The Federation and the Klingons would have to be pretty much deadlocked and near the point of mutual exhaustion for L'Rell to be able to so easily blackmail them with a show of "strength" like that; that the Klingons would just pack up and go home because some opportunistic badass put a knife to their throats is a bit hard to sell under those circumstances.

Not even saying it's a bad storyline, just that they didn't really SELL this storyline and it comes off as a more than a little far fetched.

Maybe they'll expand on it in season 2 though?

 

[fireproof78]

But if nothing else, DIS keeps the franchise alive, and not in a too bad condition overall.

Wheneever people get annoyed at me for saying "Well, DISCO is trying to be entertaining" this is part of my reasoning. Currently, the franchise is continuing to move, even if the end product isn't the penultimate Star Trek series i want.

Again, I can be satisfied with the current product and still want it to become better. Yes, that sounds like a contradiction in terms. i'm still a work in progress

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Wheneever people get annoyed at me for saying "Well, DISCO is trying to be entertaining" this is part of my reasoning. Currently, the franchise is continuing to move, even if the end product isn't the penultimate Star Trek series i want.

Again, I can be satisfied with the current product and still want it to become better. Yes, that sounds like a contradiction in terms. i'm still a work in progress

What's nice is that we not only have a Star Trek show but that it actually has a chance to at least improve on itself as it moves forward. Wishing ill will for this show like some fans are doing is not a very good way of assuring we get a great Star Trek show. If this show utterly failed like many wanted it to, it would further put the franchise on ice and who knows when we would get another, maybe until management changes. Imagine if TNG had just died right after the very weak first season. Nobody would have known how good it got as it went. That's not a guarantee that DISCOVERY will find that kind of footing, but at least the opportunity is there and that's why I want to support it. Criticism is necessary, but a total dismissal achieves nothing. We were lucky to see ENTERPRISE actually get good before it ultimately got cancelled. I know if that show had ended after two seasons I wouldn't have ever given it as much thought as I do today. To me it would have just been that "forgettable one that got cancelled".