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Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

Is it?

  • Yes, that's the official word and it still fits

    Votes: 194 44.7%
  • Yes, but it's borderline at this point

    Votes: 44 10.1%
  • No, there's just too many inconsistencies

    Votes: 147 33.9%
  • I don't care about continuity, just the show's quality

    Votes: 49 11.3%

  • Total voters
    434
How will this make up change violate canon? Does it really change anything about Klingon "history"?

The idea behind the redesign is that Klingons have extra organs on their heads that hair would interfere with, so Klingons are naturally bald. That's false, since we've seen that many Klingons do have hair in other shows. There are ways that the bald DSC Klingons can work (ritualistic shaving, mutation, etc.), but not what the Powers That Be have in mind.

My point is, if they're toying with incorrect "facts" outside of the show, how long until something gets into an actual episode, making DSC's existence as a prime universe show more and more in name only?

25 years later.

Still counts.

Not in the TOS timeframe.

Not sure that makes a difference, IMHO.

B). internal visual consistency is not necessary for my enjoyment. If they change the visuals, they change the visuals. TOS to TMP to TNG. It's not as consistent as we swear it would be.

Fair enough.
 
My point is, if they're toying with incorrect "facts" outside of the show, how long until something gets into an actual episode, making DSC's existence as a prime universe show more and more in name only?
They're creating new "facts" just like every show before it. Roll with it.
 
The idea behind the redesign is that Klingons have extra organs on their heads that hair would interfere with, so Klingons are naturally bald. That's false, since we've seen that many Klingons do have hair in other shows. There are ways that the bald DSC Klingons can work (ritualistic shaving, mutation, etc.), but not what the Powers That Be have in mind. My point is, if they're toying with incorrect "facts" outside of the show, how long until something gets into an actual episode, making DSC's existence as a prime universe show more and more in name only?
Then it's a reboot and nobody cares what the producers think. Kind of like now.
 
Exactly. As soon as you give up on the notion of following some kind of "canon," your story will become good; and conversely, as soon as you try adhering to it, your story will become bad.

The fetters of good storytelling is having to share a universe. :borg:
 
To some people, myself included, Star Trek is an evolving concept.
As it is to me, but this is the same base that insists upon recreating TOS sets down to the minutia of the fabric of uniforms. There is a desire for something new, only for their to be frustration when something new is actually done, i.e. death threats to the director and producer if Spock dies. There is a strong sense of protectionism when it comes to change and Star Trek.

The funny thing is, is that if that attitude persisted, TWOK would be regarded as the worst film for Star Trek.
 
Exactly. As soon as you give up on the notion of following some kind of "canon," your story will become good; and conversely, as soon as you try adhering to it, your story will become bad.
It's a matter of degree on a case by case basis.
 
I think it's more important to write an interesting story than to stick to some canon.

The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Quite the opposite.

If the premise of the story is to follow the precedents of a previously established body of work (or "canon"), then part of writing a good story IS sticking to that canon.
 
The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Quite the opposite.

If the premise of the story is to follow the precedents of a previously established body of work (or "canon"), then part of writing a good story IS sticking to that canon.

Except for those parts of the canon, that are outdated, cumbersome, sexist or generally reprehensible or anything else that could get in the way of telling an interesting story.
 
It's set in the Prime Timeline imo. But the biggest issue for me at the moment is how to bring the Legend of Kahless forging the first Bathleth from a lock of his hair in line with the new hairless appearance of the Klingons.
 
It's set in the Prime Timeline imo. But the biggest issue for me at the moment is how to bring the Legend of Kahless forging the first Bathleth from a lock of his hair in line with the new hairless appearance of the Klingons.

They keep trying to repeat Kahless' exploit and set their hair on fire doing so?;)
 
It's set in the Prime Timeline imo. But the biggest issue for me at the moment is how to bring the Legend of Kahless forging the first Bathleth from a lock of his hair in line with the new hairless appearance of the Klingons.
Perhaps DiscoKlingons have pubes surrounding their penii
 
To me, Discovery stands apart from what came before--that is literally the only way to reconcile the differences. Not a reboot exactly, but more of a disjointed continuation. Kinda like the TNG era versus TOS (which I'm actually glad about--I would have never became a fan if the TNG era was like TOS.)

And, for the record, I don't give a rat's ass what TPTB have to say about the issue. Yes, it's the "Prime" universe, but only in the sense that TOS and TNG are in the same universe.
 
To me, Discovery stands apart from what came before--that is literally the only way to reconcile the differences. Not a reboot exactly, but more of a disjointed continuation. Kinda like the TNG era versus TOS (which I'm actually glad about--I would have never became a fan if the TNG era was like TOS.)

And, for the record, I don't give a rat's ass what TPTB have to say about the issue. Yes, it's the "Prime" universe, but only in the sense that TOS and TNG are in the same universe.
I'm going with it's Prime, but slightly altered due to the Temporal Cold War.
:shrug:
 
Except for those parts of the canon, that are outdated, cumbersome, sexist or generally reprehensible or anything else that could get in the way of telling an interesting story.
I certainly agree that facts in the canon that are "sexist or generally reprehensible" should not be adhered to. That's really just basic morality. If the only possible way to interpret Turnabout Intruder is that Starfleet had a policy preventing women from being captains, I would not adhere to it unless I was telling an interesting story about how that policy came to be and how it was ended.

“Except” or “anything”?
The category of "anything else that could get in the way of telling an interesting story" is so broad as to be meaningless. As stated, it is really just a license for lazy world building. Which, of course, is self-defeating. It strains the suspension of disbelief beyond what is sustainable – the suspension only works if the rules of the fictional world are internally consistent. Furthermore, why bother telling a story in a setting that inspires the author if that author doesn’t follow the setting?

For example: Let's say I am fascinated by ancient Rome. I some interesting story ideas and I want to write a novel in the historical setting of ancient Rome. The canon I am working within, therefore, is what we know about ancient Rome.
You know what I also like? Laser swords.
I have an interesting idea about a story involving centurions who are armed with laser swords.
Also robots. The members of the Roman senate are robots.

My interesting story will still have the stone and marble of ancient Rome, political intrigue, the struggles of empire, and all that other Roman-y stuff. But also robots and laser swords.

Of course, I could tell such a story, IF I set it in the context of alternate history, a fictional setting.

But if my story is interesting, under your rule I am free to tell that story in ancient Rome, since adhering to the established facts would otherwise prevent me from telling it. Could I claim that it is consistent with the canon of the setting I have chosen (namely, historical, ancient Rome)? No - and such a story would creative a cognitive dissonance. But even more fundamentally, is there really no way I could tell an interesting historical Rome story without those inconsistencies?
 
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