Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[BillJ]

Is it not reasonable to think that the audience has not seen ever facet of Klingon culture?

You mean with over seven hundred hours of material and three shows that focused on them? I'd say they were pretty well mined. Beyond visual changes and the inability to clearly speak, Discovery didn't bring in anything on the Klingons we didn't already know.

Respectfully, I will disagree. To me, that is asinine to hold on to a story choice because of limits in budget or former writer's imaginations.

I notice you completely ignored my point about the possibility of differences between human and alien cultures.

 

[The Wormhole]

Is it not reasonable to think that the audience has not seen ever facet of Klingon culture?

Klingons are one of the most heavily developed races in the Star Trek canon. We arguably know more about Klingon culture and customs than we do of any other race in Trek, including humanity of the future. We've seen it all, their government, military, religion, legal system, penal system, hell we've even seen their chefs and street actors. What we've seen in Disco seems more like a completely different race completely rather than a previously unseen facet of the Klingons from the other shows.

 

[BillJ]

The Discovery Klingons make me miss the Berman-era party Klingons. Which is sad.

 

[fireproof78]

You mean with over seven hundred hours of material and three shows that focused on them? I'd say they were pretty well mined. Beyond visual changes and the inability to clearly speak, Discovery didn't bring in anything on the Klingons we didn't already know.

I din't know about 24 Great Houses.

I notice you completely ignored my point about the possibility of differences between human and alien cultures.

You're right, I completely ignored it. I shall address it now.

Cultures do not develop as monolith, due to a variety of factors.

Klingons are one of the most heavily developed races in the Star Trek canon. We arguably know more about Klingon culture and customs than we do of any other race in Trek, including humanity of the future. We've seen it all, their government, military, religion, legal system, penal system, hell we've even seen their chefs and street actors. What we've seen in Disco seems more like a completely different race completely rather than a previously unseen facet of the Klingons from the other shows.

"Street actors?" I must have missed that.

Secondly, we've seen the Klingons in TNG era, 100ish years removed. Is the argument that we know exactly what TOS Klingon culture is like?

 

[BillJ]

Secondly, we've seen the Klingons in TNG era, 100ish years removed. Is the argument that we know exactly what TOS Klingon culture is like?

So what exactly is different? Especially considering 22nd and 24th century Klingon culture is very similar.

 

[BillJ]

Cultures do not develop as monolith, due to a variety of factors.

You can speak to technological progress being the same among aliens as humans? What studies have you taken part of?

 

[Tuskin38]

Klingons in discovery act like TNG Klingons. they go on about Kahless and honour.

 

[BillJ]

"Street actors?" I must have missed that.

We've even seen a Klingon nanny.

 

[The Wormhole]

"Street actors?" I must have missed that.

TNG Firstborn.

Secondly, we've seen the Klingons in TNG era, 100ish years removed. Is the argument that we know exactly what TOS Klingon culture is like?

We've seen Klingon culture from mid 22nd century to early 25th (future scenes in Endgame) between three different universes (Prime Universe, Mirror Universe, Kelvin Timeline). But apparently in the 2250s Klingons decided to be completely different in every way imaginable to all other Klingons seen everywhere else in the franchise.

 

[fireproof78]

So what exactly is different?

Totalitarian state to a more feudal one.

We've seen Klingon culture from mid 22nd century to early 25th (future scenes in Endgame) between three different universes (Prime Universe, Mirror Universe, Kelvin Timeline). But apparently in the 2250s Klingons decided to be completely different in every way imaginable to all other Klingons seen everywhere else in the franchise.

Good.

 

[BillJ]

But apparently in the 2250s Klingons decided to be completely different in every way imaginable to all other Klingons seen everywhere else in the franchise.

It is still PRIME!!!

 

[BillJ]

Totalitarian state to a more feudal one.

Seems like the 24 Houses would point to a feudal government.

 

[The Wormhole]

Klingons in discovery act like TNG Klingons. they go on about Kahless and honour.

Even then, Discovery seems to treat Kahless as some sort of supernatural deity whom the Klingons actually pray to and L'Rell even said "Kahless willing" in reference to her plan succeeding.

Kahless wasn't really supernatural, he was an ordinary person who won over the Klingon people through leadership, victory and an honour code. Okay, some mystical elements exist in his story, like the creation of the first bat'leth, and there is the whole second coming aspect of his legend, but he is not the Klingon god as Discovery is treating him as. Klingon mythology stated Klingons had no use for gods and slaughtered the ones they were supposed to worship.

 

[BillJ]

Okay, some mystical elements exist in his story, like the creation of the first bat'leth, and there is the whole second coming aspect of his legend, but he is not the Klingon god as Discovery is treating him as. Klingon mythology stated Klingons had no use for gods and slaughtered the ones they were supposed to worship.

Pfft. Why are you so wrapped up in details?!

 

[The Wormhole]

Pfft. Why are you so wrapped up in details?!

I know, right? Clearly these facts stated in onscreen dialogue are irrelevant just because the show's official Twitter says it's in the Prime Universe. It's foolish of me to expect it consistency.

 

[BillJ]

I know, right? Clearly these facts stated in onscreen dialogue are irrelevant just because the show's official Twitter says it's in the Prime Universe. It's foolish of me to expect it consistency.

It is funny, the one thing I can't forgive in all the shit they've gotten wrong? The TNG-era rank pips. Totally throws me out of the story every time I see them.

 

[The Wormhole]

And yet, when they do their inevitable time travel story involving the 24th century, suddenly 24th century Starfleet is using a new form of rank insignia! And still the Peanut Gallery claims it's Prime because as you know, looks aren't canon.

 

[BillJ]

And yet, when they do their inevitable time travel story involving the 24th century, suddenly 24th century Starfleet is using a new form of rank insignia! And still the Peanut Gallery claims it's Prime because as you know, looks aren't canon.

I think you'll have some folks go nuts just as much as TOS purists if they mess with the look of the 24th century.

 

[fireproof78]

And yet, when they do their inevitable time travel story involving the 24th century, suddenly 24th century Starfleet is using a new form of rank insignia! And still the Peanut Gallery claims it's Prime because as you know, looks aren't canon.

Wow...what a grand oversimplification. There are simply no reason why someone might think DISCO is Prime other than what the PTB have said.

Useful idiot that I am...

 

[BillJ]

Useful idiot that I am...

Join the club. We've been called idiots for not following CBS' decrees.