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Do you believe in the existence of aliens?

Depends entirely on who's in charge. If they are religious, want our resource or even want to colonize, we are fucked. Because then they come with the evangelization and burning of infidels. And the relocation. And of course they'll bring their own diseases.

You're assuming that our contact with them will be like European contact with the Americas.

It seems at least as likely to me that it would be more like European contact with Africa. Even for centuries after Europeans had mastered the world's wind system, and could sail anywhere in the world, Africa was essentially impenetrable to them.

Our diseases my actually turn this planet into a graveyard for aliens, the way Wells described in War of the Worlds
 
You're assuming that our contact with them will be like European contact with the Americas.

It seems at least as likely to me that it would be more like European contact with Africa. Even for centuries after Europeans had mastered the world's wind system, and could sail anywhere in the world, Africa was essentially impenetrable to them.

Until they do colonize, then humans will become second class citizens under the Earthikaaner's Alienpartheid Laws.
 
I am just never going to be able to get past the precision cut stone ruins of Puma Punku. How was this done? Until this gets explained to my satisfaction, planet Earth was crawling with aliens a thousand plus years ago :p

LOL, does it really need aliens to cut precise lines into stones?
Well it might if the only substance that can actually cut that stone (granite and diorite) is diamond (or something harder than diamond ;)). Then there's the sheer precision of the cutting and drilling; and these incredibly heavy stones are built to interlock which means they were somehow stacked so perfectly there was no need for mortar. How?? How did they do this? :eek: I'm stumped, so I'm going to go with aliens (or maybe the stone masons Templar :D)
 
I believe in the possibility that there could be other life out there, I also believe in the possibility that there isn't. I'm open to either, until there is proof of one or the other, I think you have to be open to both possibilities.


But that's just it, there's no possibility we're the only planet in the entire universe consisting of a billion billion stars with life in it. The possibilty of this being the case is so small and so remote that it might as well be impossible. You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice on the day you win the lottery on the day an astreroid hits the earth and ends all life on it than there is of Earth being the only planet in the universe with life on it.

There's 100 stars in the universe for every grain of sand on the planet. Every. Single. Grain. Of sand. 100 stars.

And you think it's even remotely possible that only 1/100th of one of those grains of sand represents the one star in the universe with life around it? Ours? That, I'm sorry, isn't the definition of "remotely possible." A 1 in 10^22 chance doesn't qualify as possible.
 
Logic dictates that the chances of this being the only planet with life on it are extremely low. I'd like to believe that we're simply not advanced/intelligent to have made contact with it yet.
 
I am just never going to be able to get past the precision cut stone ruins of Puma Punku. How was this done? Until this gets explained to my satisfaction, planet Earth was crawling with aliens a thousand plus years ago :p

LOL, does it really need aliens to cut precise lines into stones?
Well it might if the only substance that can actually cut that stone (granite and diorite) is diamond (or something harder than diamond ;)). Then there's the sheer precision of the cutting and drilling; and these incredibly heavy stones are built to interlock which means they were somehow stacked so perfectly there was no need for mortar. How?? How did they do this? :eek: I'm stumped, so I'm going to go with aliens (or maybe the stone masons Templar :D)

This is faulty reasoning. You are stumped so aliens did it? :wtf: Quite a leap. If you don't know, you don't know - that's it. If there were mirror-smooth structures built of unknown alloys that would be different but these are rocks. It's much more likely that some ancient Einstein with lots of time on his hands and little else to apply himself to, figured out how to do this. It's WAY premature to invoke aliens - as fun as that is.
 
I believe in the possibility that there could be other life out there, I also believe in the possibility that there isn't. I'm open to either, until there is proof of one or the other, I think you have to be open to both possibilities.


But that's just it, there's no possibility we're the only planet in the entire universe consisting of a billion billion stars with life in it. The possibilty of this being the case is so small and so remote that it might as well be impossible. You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice on the day you win the lottery on the day an astreroid hits the earth and ends all life on it than there is of Earth being the only planet in the universe with life on it.

There's 100 stars in the universe for every grain of sand on the planet. Every. Single. Grain. Of sand. 100 stars.

And you think it's even remotely possible that only 1/100th of one of those grains of sand represents the one star in the universe with life around it? Ours? That, I'm sorry, isn't the definition of "remotely possible." A 1 in 10^22 chance doesn't qualify as possible.

That logic is unsound. If there were only one planet in the entire universe whose inhabitants wondered about such things, then that would be us. More simply, you might be holding the only winning lottery ticket, so claiming that millions of other people must also be Mega-Jackpot winners doesn't have a sound basis. We have a sample size of one, from which no inferences can be drawn. Sure, we can recite big numbers with lots of zeros, but we have little more to base it on than medieval monks arguing about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
 
LOL, does it really need aliens to cut precise lines into stones?
Well it might if the only substance that can actually cut that stone (granite and diorite) is diamond (or something harder than diamond ;)). Then there's the sheer precision of the cutting and drilling; and these incredibly heavy stones are built to interlock which means they were somehow stacked so perfectly there was no need for mortar. How?? How did they do this? :eek: I'm stumped, so I'm going to go with aliens (or maybe the stone masons Templar :D)

This is faulty reasoning. You are stumped so aliens did it? :wtf: Quite a leap. If you don't know, you don't know - that's it. If there were mirror-smooth structures built of unknown alloys that would be different but these are rocks. It's much more likely that some ancient Einstein with lots of time on his hands and little else to apply himself to, figured out how to do this. It's WAY premature to invoke aliens - as fun as that is.

I saw some History Channel documentaries that led me to believe that aliens may have done it. At least, there was no other way to explain a lot of things. It's not just one instance of amazing things happening in ancient times. There's a lot of stuff that exists that would be incredibly difficult (near impossible) to achieve using modern technology, so the fact that ancient cultures did it with no apparent technological know-how really makes one wonder if there was some kind of otherworldly intervention.
 
I would remind people that grinding and smoothing a telescope mirror to 1/8 wave or better, less than 0.1 millionth of a meter, is routinely done entirely by hand, without so much as a ruler.
 
I believe in the possibility that there could be other life out there, I also believe in the possibility that there isn't. I'm open to either, until there is proof of one or the other, I think you have to be open to both possibilities.


But that's just it, there's no possibility we're the only planet in the entire universe consisting of a billion billion stars with life in it. The possibilty of this being the case is so small and so remote that it might as well be impossible. You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice on the day you win the lottery on the day an astreroid hits the earth and ends all life on it than there is of Earth being the only planet in the universe with life on it.

There's 100 stars in the universe for every grain of sand on the planet. Every. Single. Grain. Of sand. 100 stars.

And you think it's even remotely possible that only 1/100th of one of those grains of sand represents the one star in the universe with life around it? Ours? That, I'm sorry, isn't the definition of "remotely possible." A 1 in 10^22 chance doesn't qualify as possible.

That logic is unsound. If there were only one planet in the entire universe whose inhabitants wondered about such things, then that would be us. More simply, you might be holding the only winning lottery ticket, so claiming that millions of other people must also be Mega-Jackpot winners doesn't have a sound basis. We have a sample size of one, from which no inferences can be drawn. Sure, we can recite big numbers with lots of zeros, but we have little more to base it on than medieval monks arguing about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

It's a matter of odds. If you had a 1 in 1x10^21 chance of winning the lottery if you sold everything you owned would you take it? Of course not, such a risk would be stupid to take the odds are far, vastly, greater that you'd lose!

How anyone can look at a number like 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and say, "Gee, only one out of that represents a planet with life on it!" Even if there's only 1000 planets out there with life that still 10 sextillionths of the potential stars in the universe.

The universe is fucking huge. The Hubble stared at a patch of the sky no bigger than a tennis ball held 100 meters away from you and it found 3000 galaxies! Each one of those galaxies being made of millions of stars and each of those stars likely having at least one planet around them.

Even if that, and ours, were all of the planets in the universe that'd still give us 3001 x 100 million potential planets out there (assuming one planet per star.) But some people want to think that it's "possible" that in all of that, in all of everything that is out there that we are the only planet with any kind of life on it?

That, to me, is just not rational thinking. It's no different than taking a single, tiny, drop out of the ocean, scaning it for life and finding nothing only a single cell of bacteria and declaring that that is all of the life that exsists in the ocean.

No reasonable person can look at the numbers we're talking about when it comes to planets (and moons) in our solar system, stars in the galaxy galaxy and galaxies in our universe and say that we're the one place with life on it. To borrow from "Contact" if that's the case, it seems like an awful waste of space. Why is all of it out there? What is it doing? Is anything so rare that it can only happen once in sextillions? There's nothing else out there except for us? Nothing as simple as a scrap of bacteria out there?

Forget the notion that alien civilizations are coming to earth, crashing their ships, ass-raping hillbillies and all of that. There's possiblity that life in any form isn't all-that rare in our very solar system. Scientists believe it could exsist on many different moons and could have exsisted on a couple different planets. But, no, in the vastness of the universe, something so big it'd take light 92 billion years to cross it, something with incomprehensible ammounts of planets and places in it we're the one place with life.

Why are we so dammed special?
 
I would remind people that grinding and smoothing a telescope mirror to 1/8 wave or better, less than 0.1 millionth of a meter, is routinely done entirely by hand, without so much as a ruler.

Very good point. I've been an amateur astronomer for a long time and it is still beyond my comprehension how such a thing is possible. My brain-wiring just doesn't get it. Fortunately, my sense of logic is intact so I don't believe my mirror-grinding friends are aliens. :lol:
 
I don't believe that aliens are responsible for certain things, but I certainly won't rule it. There are just too many bizarre and unexplained things about the ancient world. Plus it's a fun theory!
 
It's a matter of odds. If you had a 1 in 1x10^21 chance of winning the lottery if you sold everything you owned would you take it? Of course not, such a risk would be stupid to take the odds are far, vastly, greater that you'd lose!

The conceptual problem is that you're already holding the winning ticket. All that tells you is that out of 10^21 tickets sold, there was at least one winner, you. From that, you can't infer how many winning tickets were printed no matter how fancy your statistics may be. You need a larger sample size that includes more winners, coming from some subset of the tickets sold.

For example, if there were 30 intelligent species known to inhabit our galaxy, you could take 30 per galaxy as a basis for further extrapolation. But if there is only one intelligent species known to inhabit our galaxy, then there is also only one intelligent species known in our local group, and one in our entire universe, which leaves you nowhere.

One is a lonely number to extrapolate from.
 
In one ancient text (no idea which one just heard it somewhere) was written something like, that the Gods in their silver carriages came down from the skies to help the human people. So, who knows...maybe long ago... however IF...they please could come down from their again, visibel for everyone, during my life time!
Is that to much to ask for?! :D

TerokNor
 
Logic dictates that the chances of this being the only planet with life on it are extremely low. I'd like to believe that we're simply not advanced/intelligent to have made contact with it yet.

What logic would that be dictating to you?
 
Why are we so dammed special?

Well that is the question. We don't even know if we are special, yet as of the moment there's reason to assume that we indeed are. You can cite probability theory all you want, it doesn't need to mean anything. Just because I have a chance of winning the lottery doesn't mean that I actually will win the lottery. That's what people always forget when they talk about probabilities. There's also a chance that one day a flying blue elephant that has a contempt for the bourgeoisie will be born. We still haven't found a second sample of life in the universe. All we have is life on our planet, and that life could only develop because of VERY peculiar circumstances. Yet people say it's a statistical probability that there must be life out there. I say that is more wishful thinking than profound logic.

There is no logic like "existence of A ==> existence of B".

Not that I have a problem with wishful thinking, but people should realize that their believe in aliens is - as of the moment - not different than the believe in a God. The existence of other life in the universe is not proven, not dictated, and not required. It is only assumed by humans. Just like humans assume that there MUST be a creator, they also assume that there MUST be brothers and sisters.
 
LOL, does it really need aliens to cut precise lines into stones?
Well it might if the only substance that can actually cut that stone (granite and diorite) is diamond (or something harder than diamond ;)). Then there's the sheer precision of the cutting and drilling; and these incredibly heavy stones are built to interlock which means they were somehow stacked so perfectly there was no need for mortar. How?? How did they do this? :eek: I'm stumped, so I'm going to go with aliens (or maybe the stone masons Templar :D)

This is faulty reasoning. You are stumped so aliens did it? :wtf: Quite a leap. If you don't know, you don't know - that's it.
hmmm, ok I was too embarrassed to go with my first choice (Morlocks) since aliens are far sexier and usually have hi tech equipment. But Morlocks makes far more sense since they technically live "inside" the earth and therefore surely have mad rockcutting skillz ;)
 
Why are we so dammed special?

Well that is the question. We don't even know if we are special, yet as of the moment there's reason to assume that we indeed are. You can cite probability theory all you want, it doesn't need to mean anything. Just because I have a chance of winning the lottery doesn't mean that I actually will win the lottery. That's what people always forget when they talk about probabilities. There's also a chance that one day a flying blue elephant that has a contempt for the bourgeoisie will be born. We still haven't found a second sample of life in the universe. All we have is life on our planet, and that life could only develop because of VERY peculiar circumstances. Yet people say it's a statistical probability that there must be life out there. I say that is more wishful thinking than profound logic.

There is no logic like "existence of A ==> existence of B".

Not that I have a problem with wishful thinking, but people should realize that their believe in aliens is - as of the moment - not different than the believe in a God. The existence of other life in the universe is not proven, not dictated, and not required. It is only assumed by humans. Just like humans assume that there MUST be a creator, they also assume that there MUST be brothers and sisters.

As I've said there are 1x10^21 stars in the universe, give or take. (Probably a lot more give.) It's arrogant, earth-centric and absurd to think that there's any reasonable chance that our planet is the only one with life on it. Amiditily the "lottery example" isn't a great one because the lottery is 1 in millions chance of winning, orders of magnitude "more likely" than the chance of Earth being the one planet in the universe with life on it. The number of stars in the universe is unfathomable, 100 stars per grain of sand on the planet, the number of atoms in solid piece of material a cubic-foot in size, however you want to put it.

There's a lot out there. A lot. We're not even likely the only place with life on it in this solar system. How can anyone look at a number like 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and say, "Gee. You know we could be the only place with life on it!" just doesn't make sense to me.

Say what you will about us having no "proof", I argue that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. I look at odds, the odds tell me that it's unlikely we're the only place where there's life. I think my analogy to the ocean works better, take a drop of water out of the ocean and if in look at under a microscope you only find a single one-celled scrap of bacteria would it be reasonable for someone -with no knowledge of cean life whatsoever- to say that his single drop of water contains all of the life that there is in the ocean -knowing the size of the ocean and being able to conceptualize its size.

I look at odds, the odds of us being the only place with life on it in the whole universe doesn't make sense to me in any way whatsoever.
 
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