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Do "Voyager" and "Enterprise" Get a Better Press?

TedShatner10

Commodore
Commodore
While they're both not as good as TNG and DS9, do you think the more uneven Voyager and Enterprise are on hindsight better received shows today than from when they ran years ago?

While they both could've been so much better overall and had pretty bland character ensembles in comparison to DS9's rich tapestry, I suppose they have had their moments, with a few VOY and ENT episodes deservedly being the best of Trek.

Do you think the franchise successfully re-booted by TNG running on too long afterwards could've been a big factor in both writers and audience alike becoming seriously eroded by the Star Trek concept? I'm not being an apologist for the many creative mistakes made by VOY and ENT, but I do get the impression that they're given a slightly better ride today.
 
DS9 never caught on with the general audience at all; it was its own excursion off into a different kind of territory. "Voyager" and "Enterprise" are more directly identifiable as what people think of "Star Trek" as being - a spaceship off finding new weird people, beaming down and shooting at other ships - so over time they kind of "blend" with TOS and TNG in the popular imagination. IMAO.
 
I almost think Voyager is worse now than when I first saw it, Enterprise at least was partially saved by continuity and story arcs, DS9 is considered to be an underrated classic more and more.
 
Also, VOY and ENT were on UPN... DS9 was syndicated.

In my market, VOY was playing Wednesday evening at 8:00pm while DS9 was playing Sunday morning at 1:35am (when it wasn't pre-empted... damn sports).
 
I did'nt think ENTERPRISE had any press?! I remember them promoting the hell out of BROKEN BOW, but that's about it! Now do I think ENT is getting better reviews then before? Yes, because now that the HATERS don't have anything to hate on (I mean all that BAD word of mouth put alot of people I know off) people who did'nt watch the first time,are NOW starting to watch the reruns and enjoying them! I even have one friend ask me WHY they cancelled ENT and I told her, Because of low ratings. She just gave me a stare and said YOU'RE KIDDING! and I said, NOPE!
 
Excepting people who enjoy Star Trek, VOY and ENT have been entirely forgotten. TOS and TNG are Star Trek to most people. DS9 is my favorite, but your average person might be able to tell you that it had a black captain and that's about it.
 
At least in the UK, Voyager was very popular when it first came out. A lot of people I knew that didn't like Star Trek started liking it.

Now? Well, it's faded from public consciousness - but so's most Trek, so that's not saying much.
 
Here in Britain, Voyager benefitted during the late 90's from a regular weeknight slot on BBC2. The same time for nearly a decade, between 6 - 7.30pm evenings opposite the BBC1 news. A location trailblazed by TNG, DS9 and TOS. When Enterprise was launched, BBC lost out in a bidding war with Channel 4 (who also paid more for The Simpsons). That act signalled the end of audience figures around 2 - 3 million at peak time, with fans eager to get home after work to tune in. They split up a successful schedule formula - Simpsons and Trek back-to-back. Enterprise was mixed into a Sunday T4 afternoon, treated mostly with disdain by the presenters, more interested in interviewing Britney Spears or catching up with Dawson's Creek. The show was in the wrong line up amidst all those teen shows. Nobody knew where to put it. Enterprise looked like mutton dressed as lamb... clearly the odd one out on T4. In addition they treated it shabbily, heavily editing it for language and violence. That failure to understand the programme's audience and find the right timeslot, no doubt killed any possibility of Channel 4 showing Battlestar Galactica too. The last glimpse of Star Trek in the schedules was BBC2 consigning reruns of the Original and Next Generation in the wee small hours of Saturday morning.

Not being American, I don't know much about UPN's strategy with Voyager and Enterprise. Although I understand the situation was similiar, a familiar fixture being messed around in the schedules, then finally squeezed out by a network catering less and less for Sci Fi.

I often wonder how well Enterprise would have faired on BBC2, free from adverts, patronising amateurish presenters and on during peak time. Well, I don't need to guess... judging by the endless promoting Heroes gets for its weeknight 9pm showing.
 
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i really liked voy and ent... i thought of it as different yet trek... i think that people just judge by the cover and not watch the show. hence the effect afterward were the shows are more liked.. if they watched it to begin with, they might of liked it as they do now and they series could have continued...
 
While they're both not as good as TNG and DS9, do you think the more uneven Voyager and Enterprise are on hindsight better received shows today than from when they ran years ago?

While they both could've been so much better overall and had pretty bland character ensembles in comparison to DS9's rich tapestry, I suppose they have had their moments, with a few VOY and ENT episodes deservedly being the best of Trek.

Do you think the franchise successfully re-booted by TNG running on too long afterwards could've been a big factor in both writers and audience alike becoming seriously eroded by the Star Trek concept? I'm not being an apologist for the many creative mistakes made by VOY and ENT, but I do get the impression that they're given a slightly better ride today.

Better received by fans or the press? The only press I see for these shows is Star Trek Magazine, which of course is going to present them in the most positive possible light. I don't hang out on either forum, so I can't say how the general fandom feel about them - I suppose if you liked them before, you'll like them now. Personally, I still can't stomach ENT - hindsight still shows it to be a poorly-written, poorly-cast train wreck with not one episode I would consider worth sitting through, let alone standing amongst the best of the franchise. VOY had a few I thought were good, many I felt were passable, and some real stinkers, making it probably the most uneven of all the series. That, too, remains my view in hindsight.

I don't think the franchise's longevity, and that of its writers, is to blame for the lackluster - and eventually amateurish - execution of these series; I lay it entirely at the feet of its producers, one of whom lacked the imagination to begin with, the other of whom had plenty of imagination but insufficient skill to translate that to a good script - he needed a strong editor, which ENT never had.

The mistakes on VOY were, I tend to agree, creative ones. ENT's mistakes were in both its conception and execution; any creative mistakes paled in comparison to that lack of substance and skill.
 
Here in Britain, Voyager benefitted during the late 90's from a regular weeknight slot on BBC2. The same time for nearly a decade, between 6 - 7.30pm evenings opposite the BBC1 news. A location trailblazed by TNG, DS9 and TOS. When Enterprise was launched, BBC lost out in a bidding war with Channel 4 (who also paid more for The Simpsons). That act signalled the end of audience figures around 2 - 3 million at peak time, with fans eager to get home after work to tune in. They split up a successful schedule formula - Simpsons and Trek back-to-back. Enterprise was mixed into a Sunday T4 afternoon, treated mostly with disdain by the presenters, more interested in interviewing Britney Spears or catching up with Dawson's Creek. The show was in the wrong line up amidst all those teen shows. Nobody knew where to put it. Enterprise looked like mutton dressed as lamb... clearly the odd one out on T4. In addition they treated it shabbily, heavily editing it for language and violence. That failure to understand the programme's audience and find the right timeslot, no doubt killed any possibility of Channel 4 showing Battlestar Galactica too. The last glimpse of Star Trek in the schedules was BBC2 consigning reruns of the Original and Next Generation in the wee small hours of Saturday morning.

Not being American, I don't know much about UPN's strategy with Voyager and Enterprise. Although I understand the situation was similiar, a familiar fixture being messed around in the schedules, then finally squeezed out by a network catering less and less for Sci Fi.

I often wonder how well Enterprise would have faired on BBC2, free from adverts, patronising amateurish presenters and on during peak time. Well, I don't need to guess... judging by the endless promoting Heroes gets for its weeknight 9pm showing.

Don't forget the T4 presenters taking the complete piss out of it and any and all who watched with their all too subtle jibes. In fairness, towards the end of the run they did do a big hoopla and had quizzes and all sorts related to it but before hand they were gentle ribbing and mocking of those who deemed to tune in and watch it.
 
A lot of people, myself included were harsh on Voyager when it first aired. Looking back, I can see it as a decent show. It falls short of its three predecessors, but it makes for decent television all the same.

Enterprise, sadly is as bad as people say. Season 1 is average with a few good episodes sprinkled around (Shadows of P'Jem and Shuttlepod One, notably). Season 2 was awful and best left ignored. Season 3 got entertaining towards the end, but the season overall is pretty overrated. It wasn't until the fourth season when the show turned into blatant fanwank that it became any good.
 
Voyager is my favourite Trek series, followed by TNG and DS9. I really liked ENT too but it doesn't compare to older series.
 
I think they get bad press because the internet is mostly designed for bad press. For every person that liked an episode, you will have five people that prefer to gripe about every little detail that sucked.
 
Here in Britain, Voyager benefitted during the late 90's from a regular weeknight slot on BBC2. The same time for nearly a decade, between 6 - 7.30pm evenings opposite the BBC1 news. A location trailblazed by TNG, DS9 and TOS. When Enterprise was launched, BBC lost out in a bidding war with Channel 4 (who also paid more for The Simpsons). That act signalled the end of audience figures around 2 - 3 million at peak time, with fans eager to get home after work to tune in. They split up a successful schedule formula - Simpsons and Trek back-to-back. Enterprise was mixed into a Sunday T4 afternoon, treated mostly with disdain by the presenters, more interested in interviewing Britney Spears or catching up with Dawson's Creek. The show was in the wrong line up amidst all those teen shows. Nobody knew where to put it. Enterprise looked like mutton dressed as lamb... clearly the odd one out on T4. In addition they treated it shabbily, heavily editing it for language and violence. That failure to understand the programme's audience and find the right timeslot, no doubt killed any possibility of Channel 4 showing Battlestar Galactica too. The last glimpse of Star Trek in the schedules was BBC2 consigning reruns of the Original and Next Generation in the wee small hours of Saturday morning.

Not being American, I don't know much about UPN's strategy with Voyager and Enterprise. Although I understand the situation was similiar, a familiar fixture being messed around in the schedules, then finally squeezed out by a network catering less and less for Sci Fi.

I often wonder how well Enterprise would have faired on BBC2, free from adverts, patronising amateurish presenters and on during peak time. Well, I don't need to guess... judging by the endless promoting Heroes gets for its weeknight 9pm showing.

I lived over in the UK during the late 90s. I remember those good old days... Trek used to be on BBC2 all the time.

Seriously? Trek's gone down in the popular consciousness in the UK as well? Here where I live now in Australia, I feel a lot more geeky for liking Trek than I ever did in England.

Back in the 90s, I had no idea there was so much disdain for Voyager. It was my favourite show at the time. As soon as I joined TrekBBS, though, that was an eye-opener. By the time ENT premiered, I was already all too familiar with the bitter online Trekkie community.
 
I think they get bad press because the internet is mostly designed for bad press. For every person that liked an episode, you will have five people that prefer to gripe about every little detail that sucked.


The thing is, both Voyager and Enterprise deserved all of the bad press they received. It did not help that the professional critics hated both shows.
 
Given the amount of people who have liked Voyager more when they've recently re-watched it (at least according to their posts in the Voyager forum) I'd say Voyager has gotten worse press than it deserved. It's holding up well with time though, imo.
 
Most people still around on these boards are the hardcore of the hardcore fans that will love anything you slap the trek name on. Of course they are going to sing the praises of even the weakest offerings the franchise has ever produced. Most of the fandom has grown apathetic, after the disgrace of Voyager and Enterprise and left. Its even worse considering the potential both shows had.

People don't even care enough to complain anymore. That is when you have the biggest of problems.
 
As a couple of people have said, Voyager, and even moreso with Enterprise, have nearly been forgotten by the non-Trek audience. To be honest, my opinion of Voyager post season 4 has really gone down the last few years, and I've heard that sentiment echoed from various people.

Here in Britain, Voyager benefitted during the late 90's from a regular weeknight slot on BBC2. The same time for nearly a decade, between 6 - 7.30pm evenings opposite the BBC1 news. A location trailblazed by TNG, DS9 and TOS. When Enterprise was launched, BBC lost out in a bidding war with Channel 4 (who also paid more for The Simpsons). That act signalled the end of audience figures around 2 - 3 million at peak time, with fans eager to get home after work to tune in. They split up a successful schedule formula - Simpsons and Trek back-to-back. Enterprise was mixed into a Sunday T4 afternoon, treated mostly with disdain by the presenters, more interested in interviewing Britney Spears or catching up with Dawson's Creek. The show was in the wrong line up amidst all those teen shows. Nobody knew where to put it. Enterprise looked like mutton dressed as lamb... clearly the odd one out on T4. In addition they treated it shabbily, heavily editing it for language and violence. That failure to understand the programme's audience and find the right timeslot, no doubt killed any possibility of Channel 4 showing Battlestar Galactica too. The last glimpse of Star Trek in the schedules was BBC2 consigning reruns of the Original and Next Generation in the wee small hours of Saturday morning.

Not being American, I don't know much about UPN's strategy with Voyager and Enterprise. Although I understand the situation was similiar, a familiar fixture being messed around in the schedules, then finally squeezed out by a network catering less and less for Sci Fi.

I often wonder how well Enterprise would have faired on BBC2, free from adverts, patronising amateurish presenters and on during peak time. Well, I don't need to guess... judging by the endless promoting Heroes gets for its weeknight 9pm showing.

Ahhh, the good old days of BBC2's almost religious loyalty to Trek. TNG on Wendesday, DS9 Thursday, TOS Friday and Voyager on a Sunday - until that one day they took it off for some documentary about Bolton Stadium closing, then it disappeared for six months :p

Channel 4's treatment of Enterprise was abysmal considering all the fuss they made over being Britain's only terrestrial channel showing Brand New Trek.

It started off well enough - plenty of advertising, a decent timeslot (Monday or Tuesday at 6pm if I recall), E4 repeats. Then without warning they went "Channel 4" on it (like they did with King of the Hill, Norm, SG-1, Babylon 5 and a million other shows before it), by bouncing it round the schedule. I remember accidentally stumbling across a season 2 episode at 4:35am one night.

Without warning, it appeared on T4, and just like you said, was met with almost derision by the presenters. Sunday afternoon was just not an appropriate place for season 3 of Enterprise or SG-1, and the editing really hurt both shows.

It has to be said that while Sky One's advertising for it wasn't ideal, it did benefit from a stable timeslot, and Virgin1 has given it the best advertising I've seen for any Trek series. They actually seem genuinely excited to have it (though with a tongue-in-cheek reference to hating the theme tune :p).

I think Virgin1 in the UK probably has done a lot for bringing interest in Voyager and Enterprise back to life, but it's still a far cry from the heady days of the late 90s/early 2000s.
 
Enterprise got so botched up that in the end, Jolene Blalock was openly complaining about the direction and the quality of the show. It wasn't the fault of the actors, it was the bad writing, the lazy scripts and falling back to familiar formulas that were getting extremely tiresome, including............wait for it.............SPACE NAZI'S!

Then the show offered lame explanations of why old Klingons had no ridges, and the incredibly stupid and awful Xindi. Not to mention Ferengi, but the Ferengi are "The Three Stooges" of the ST: Universe. Honestly, sometimes I think that Paramount hired monkeys and gave them word processors and typewriters and basically let them write anything they wanted. I hope the same apes didn't write the movie!

Scott
 
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