Do "Voyager" and "Enterprise" Get a Better Press?

[JustKate]

^ Possibly. I have no idea. They are always bringing on chefs that I've never heard of, but then again, that wouldn't be too hard - most of my knowledge of foodiedom I've learned from the Food Network, after all.

But I definitely agree that Jeri Ryan would be an attraction for the show and the restaurant. I hear the food there is good, too!

 

[Jeri]

The internet is a safe, ananymous place to act that way without suffering reprisal. That is why negative opinions on the internet are usually overemphasized.

I think that's abundantly clear; people can say things on the net they wouldn't be able to say to someone's face, whatever the reason. And most of those things seem to be bad news.

 

[TedShatner10]

Jeri Ryan won herself a role on a fairly big CBS series opposite James Woods, so I don't think she lacks a pull in the very inbred, venal American entertainment "industry".

As said before I genuinely wonder why Voyager's earlier seasons are supposedly better than the latter season, especially when Voyager was uneven in quality from the very start, Jeri Taylor seemed to creatively burn out sooner than B&B, and Kes mostly did little for me (although Jennifer Lien wasn't that bad). I agree Season Six was pretty uneven after the S4/5 apex, but some of its episodes were better than most of the average to terrible episodes that composed the bulk of Seasons Two and Three (although I loved "The Chute" and "Distant Origin").

 

[teya]

^ ^ Boston Public did not make the mention on the Bride's ad -- only her current show at the time and "Star Trek Voyager," the show that gave her notoriety.

JustKate, of all the chefs in the world, I doubt Christophe would have made it onto the show without people knowing his spouse.

Um, yeah, he would. In the foodie world, Christophe is big. He was one of Food & Wine's Best New Chef's the year Ortolan opened. He does food & wine festivals all around the world.

And he's huge in Japan.

He's also hot.

 

[plynch]

For full-page glossy ads in top-tier publications, they'd need someone well known to justify the expense. She is well known; that ad was within the past year, so she has had staying power as well.

But the ad has to tell her name and tell people what she's from. Doesn't that signify that she's not THAT well known? If it were Rosie O'Donnell, they wouldn't have to write even her name or "famous comedian."

I'm all for her (Seven/Jeri), but let's face it, our beloved shows/actors are pretty fringe/ignored in the culture at large. Hence the big, loud movie with explosions, to put it back on the map? We'll see. It's like trying to recapture lightning in a bottle or somesuch mixed metaphor. Be well.

 

[Jeri]

Um, yeah, he would. In the foodie world, Christophe is big. He was one of Food & Wine's Best New Chef's the year Ortolan opened. He does food & wine festivals all around the world...And he's huge in Japan...He's also hot.

Yeah...I just put that in there to see if you were awake yet.

...I'm all for her (Seven/Jeri), but let's face it, our beloved shows/actors are pretty fringe/ignored in the culture at large. ...

I said she was well known; and that she is.

 

[TedShatner10]

I think Jeri Ryan and the rest of the Voyager cast are/were as well known as the Stargate SG-1 cast.

 

[Stewey]

Unfortunately it goes further than that. If you look over the official ST forum you will see that a few users have made a career out of berating people that go to the Enterprise forum and express a positive opinion. It goes beyond expressing a negative opinion. They don't need 20,000 posts to do that. Some people need to hurt and harm, to force their opinions on others, and to drove anyone away that has a different belief. The internet is a safe, ananymous place to act that way without suffering reprisal. That is why negative opinions on the internet are usually overemphasized. For proof, go browse the ST Enterprise forum and you will see the same few people trolling over and over and over. It must be a sad life for people that need to spend their days spreading negativity instead of hanging around a forum for a show they like but unmoderated forums like that drawn them like flies.

I think those who express a “negative opinion” have been unfairly mis-interpreted by those who are pro-enterprise. We are all Star Trek fans, or at least the vast majority of us are at least and it is for that sole reason we all post here. Most of the people who are anti-enterprise including myself are not in any way trying to deliberately upset people, I myself criticised Enterprise because I love Star Trek and I feel that the show destroys everything I loved about the other shows and also poisons any chance of there being any new Trek within the Trek universe that I know and love, and I think (or would like to think) most of the others feel that way too.


Why are they (and me in the past) in there? It is mainly the board mechanics, all topics about a particular show have to go into the relevant forum so they can't go anywhere else on the board to express those opinions. The problem with that is about whether the sub forum should be only for fans of the particular show, or is it for Star Trek fans generally regardless of their stance towards that show. Personally I believe the latter, but many of the pro fans choose to believe the former and hence the conflict.


I don't think “negativity” (for me that word is in the eye of the beholder, much like the word “beauty” ) is overemphasised it just happens to be human nature to talk more about things we dislike rather than like. Take the real world, I have yet to see a newspaper that has a front page about a special student getting straight A's yet I reglularly see front pages about increasing crime, or accidents and generally bad news. Same on TV. But what do we do in real life? Most take it or leave it, so why should it be different when applied to a forum? Just ask yourself this next time the TV is on, and ask yourself “are they trolling me?”


To me its just free speech, and and because of that you get both the good or bad.


Feel free to carry on this discussion with me using PM's because I think I am straying way wide of the topic here.

 

[plynch]

I myself criticised Enterprise because I love Star Trek and I feel that the show destroys everything I loved about the other shows and also poisons any chance of there being any new Trek within the Trek universe that I know and love, and I think (or would like to think) most of the others feel that way too.

How did ENT destroy things?

I am not a fan of it -- I am merely asking.

 

[Xelo]

At least for me, I didn't watch DS9 at all when it was on. Maybe I didn't want to divide my attention from TNG. I did watch VOY for a few seasons before I lost interest. I remember watching the first couple eps of ENT, then I just forgot about it.

Now that all the series are in syndication / reruns, I have enjoyed watching ENT and VOY from start to finish, and now am working on DS9 (on S 3 so far). They all seem much better now than when they were on.

 

[Stewey]

I myself criticised Enterprise because I love Star Trek and I feel that the show destroys everything I loved about the other shows and also poisons any chance of there being any new Trek within the Trek universe that I know and love, and I think (or would like to think) most of the others feel that way too.

How did ENT destroy things?

I am not a fan of it -- I am merely asking.

Feel free to ask, but I think this is such a can of worms that I can't really answer you in this thread as it would drag it off topic, a headache the mods don't need.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Hey Stewey, long time no see. I don't think I've seen you post much since Enterprise ended. Hope I'll see you around some more

 

[SFRabid]

Unfortunately it goes further than that. If you look over the official ST forum you will see that a few users have made a career out of berating people that go to the Enterprise forum and express a positive opinion. It goes beyond expressing a negative opinion. They don't need 20,000 posts to do that. Some people need to hurt and harm, to force their opinions on others, and to drove anyone away that has a different belief. The internet is a safe, ananymous place to act that way without suffering reprisal. That is why negative opinions on the internet are usually overemphasized. For proof, go browse the ST Enterprise forum and you will see the same few people trolling over and over and over. It must be a sad life for people that need to spend their days spreading negativity instead of hanging around a forum for a show they like but unmoderated forums like that drawn them like flies.

I think those who express a “negative opinion” have been unfairly mis-interpreted by those who are pro-enterprise. ...

...
To me its just free speech, and and because of that you get both the good or bad.


Feel free to carry on this discussion with me using PM's because I think I am straying way wide of the topic here.

I could PM you three names from the ST official forums who have 60,000+ posts attacking not only Enterprise but any fans that post something positive. Do I really need to? All you have to do is go browse the forum. There is a difference between expressing a dislike and berating those who do like something. I criticize aspects of the show. I don't criticize people for likeing the show. I'm not saying you do either, but there are people who do and they make it a full time job. They cross the line from criticism to persecution. That is why Enterprise fans are defensive.

 

[plynch]

I could PM you three names from the ST official forums who have 60,000+ posts attacking not only Enterprise but any fans that post something positive. Do I really need to? All you have to do is go browse the forum. There is a difference between expressing a dislike and berating those who do like something. I criticize aspects of the show. I don't criticize people for likeing the show. I'm not saying you do either, but there are people who do and they make it a full time job. They cross the line from criticism to persecution. That is why Enterprise fans are defensive.

I didn't know that happened here! Most I've been to have been decent. Can you refer to a particular thread/post with persecutions? Which forums are unmoderated? I want to avoid those. You'd think that being a Trek fan would make you NOT want to attack others.

 

[SFRabid]

I could PM you three names from the ST official forums who have 60,000+ posts attacking not only Enterprise but any fans that post something positive. Do I really need to? All you have to do is go browse the forum. There is a difference between expressing a dislike and berating those who do like something. I criticize aspects of the show. I don't criticize people for likeing the show. I'm not saying you do either, but there are people who do and they make it a full time job. They cross the line from criticism to persecution. That is why Enterprise fans are defensive.

I didn't know that happened here! Most I've been to have been decent. Can you refer to a particular thread/post with persecutions? Which forums are unmoderated? I want to avoid those. You'd think that being a Trek fan would make you NOT want to attack others.

Not here. There. This is not the official Star Trek forums. These are much better.

 

[Navaros]

I don't think VOY and ENT are given a better press nowadays, but it does appear that way because the only people left discussing them these days are the hardest of the hardcore Trek fans. Everyone else who hated VOY and ENT and were vocal about that while they were airing have for the most part dropped off the radar because they don't bother discussing dead shows. Those people still exist though.

 

[SFRabid]

I'm thinking that both VOY and especially ENT are available to more viewers now than they were upon original release. A lot of current ENT fans were not around back then. I wasn't. I never got to watch it until just over a year ago. About that same time I finally got to see the last two seasons of VOY.

 

[dreadpiraterose]

I think the shows would have done better on a network other than UPN. UPN clearly didn't know how to market and promote Star Trek, and considering some people couldn't even GET UPN didn't help.

 

[Tulaberry whine]

While it's possible people's opinion of these two shows has improved with time, I can only speak for myself with certainty: since they've both gone off the air I've found my opinion of Voyager and Enterprise to have slid further.

On first viewing I found both shows to be merely boring and I abandoned them pretty quickly.

On a second viewing many more flaws became obvious: the characterisations were incredibly thin if non-existent, the writing annoyingly pedestrian (if not faint-hearted, illogical, insulting to the intelligence and immature), the atmosphere of both shows was stubbornly beige, and they seemed terrified of pushing boundaries in any respect.

I also didn't see many of the redeeming qualities others saw in Enterprise's fourth season. With the exception of some poorly handled and rather gratuitous fan-wanking, I felt the series remained hobbled by the problems that by then seemed to have become part of the DNA of Trek.

 

[The Wormhole]

I also didn't see many of the redeeming qualities others saw in Enterprise's fourth season. With the exception of some poorly handled and rather gratuitous fan-wanking, I felt the series remained hobbled by the problems that by then seemed to have become part of the DNA of Trek.

Honestly, it was because of the "gratuitous fan-wanking" that I loved Enterprise's fourth season. Sure, it made the show only understandable to someone who only lived and breathed Star Trek, but by that point, we were the only ones still watching anyway.