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Distant Origin = heavy-handed, insulting propaganda

Re: Yep, Here goes..........................................

DarthTom said:
Akiraprise said:
Look, guys, like I said before if you want to have a debate on the religious stuff vs evolution you need to take it to a more appropriate forum. Start a new thread in Science and Technology or The Neutral Zone.

This thread needs to get back to discussing Star Trek: Voyager or it'll have to be closed.
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Brilliant episode that in classic Trek style makes a commentary on the hot issues of the day. ;)

Now if we could only forget the Threshold ever made the light of day that ruins all of the same. :vulcan:
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Come on, you weren't amused and repulsed by seeing Tom rip his own tongue out? :lol:

That's my favorite scene in the whole ep.
 
Re: Yep, Here goes..........................................

Hey! Threshold made brilliant social commentary of what happens when you are overly dedicated to your work and you mutate into a giant salamander and have sex with the boss (who is also a giant salamander).

Happens all the time.
 
Re: Yep, Here goes..........................................

Sisu said:
Hey! Threshold made brilliant social commentary of what happens when you are overly dedicated to your work and you mutate into a giant salamander and have sex with the boss (who is also a giant salamander).

Happens all the time.
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Yep, your avatar is proof! :lol:
 
Creationism is a phony science that poses a phony challenge to science that dares to admit 'we don't know it all, but here is our best take, based on available evidence. As new evidence presents itself, we will take that into account.' Evolution is a theory, but its got deep roots in reasoned thought and trial and error and research. I don't believe creationists just want to compete with evolution; they want to preempt evolution and drive it out. Navaros, creationists and anti-evolutionists in general provide their own caricature. The circular logic the Saurian Priestess used was not a whole-cloth creation of Voyager.

I am a person of faith, and a believer in science. You don't always know, so you learn as you live. You use the brain you were provided with, by what force is your choice. I myself have a problem with the 'dumb guy, genius gal' syndrome that seems to permeate sitcoms and commercials, but rather than assume some agenda, I now just assume its lazy writing. Where DO might have been heavy-handed, if it was, I'll just assume the same. Of all ST, only TNG's 'Who Watches The Watchers' truly offends me.
 
LOL, I have to write a paper on this due tomorrow -- Intelligent Design vs. Evolution....I can almost convince myself that spending time on the TrekBBS is sort of like studying....

I'm a very spiritual guy, but am with Team Evolution. God probably set something in motion--and at the universe (not species) level, mind you; it's a little presumptuous of us to think he/she/they spent all that time on us when there's a whole universe to look after -- gave each of the living things in the universe the ability of adaptive radiation and natural selection to keep it going/balance things out, got bored and just moved on.
 
I don't post that often and this thread was especially intense, but I just had to tell Sisu...your posts cracked me up.
 
Although the episode in question was a little heavy handed with it's message, I nonetheless enjoyed it simply because the writers TRIED to do something a little bit edgier, a little riskier, a little more controversial. You may not agree with the decisions and implications of the episode, but it certainly perked my attention enough that I actually paid attention while watching this episode.
Like the ENT episode that focused on HIV, this episode tries to take a contemporary issue and put it into the star trek universe, and while not entirely successful, they still offer some interesting points and add an exciting layer to the star trek universe.

Plus, How can you not laugh at seeing talking dinosaurs debating evolution? :)
 
I haven't seen this episode in years, although I have seen it over ten times easily... And I have made a lot of posts in this thread.

But the issue wasn't that they evolved, but WHERE they evolved. Y'know since they had if not trans warp technology, then certainly warp technology as they charted a 70,000 light year pilgrimage a mere 65 million years ago. And really, they hadn't evolved noticeably in the last 65 million years anyway comparing the space dinosaurs to the one on the holodeck.

So really, if they're mocking anyone it's the Mormons who say Jesus visited America before he died and red Indians were servants to white Indians because white people are supposed to be in charge and always have been in charge, and it is America which is the promised land of bible fun and not the middle east.
 
Navaros said:
RAMA said:
Propaganda?? You must be KIDDING...just because the episode supports an OPINION (mind you, heavily supported by fact) of its creators? I would be insulted if Star Trek DIDN'T try to have a point of view. Just because it runs counter to yours doesn't mean its a bad episode. Its a good adventure on its own, and wins points for having a message....in fact, its the BEST Voyager episode of all time in my opinion.
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That was not my point, them having a different opinion is fine.

Where they cross the line with this episode and it thereby turns from having an opinion into propaganda, is when they start implying all of the following:

Everyone must be assimilated into accepting and sharing their opinion. Their opinion is unquestionable, indisputable truth. Anyone who does not accept their opinion is evil, ignorant, and harmful to society. The beliefs of those who do not share their opinion, are nothing but an ignorant belief in myths.
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First, ST is still fiction. No one in the Federation is forced to believe in evolution, many aliens and some people from Earth still believe in the supernatural/gods, etc as evidenced by various ST shows, especially DS9. Its simply not the prevailing view by that time however.

Second, ST espouses opinions all the time, you as a viewer are free to decide what to think of it and say so. The creators do not force anyone to believe what they do. Sometimes, ST's more allegorical take in various episodes has very definitive ideas, especially on religion, but they are perfectly legitimate storytelling conventions.

Third, even if you do not believe evolution is a fact (which it IS), you would still have to say objectively that there is a lot more empirical evidence for it than creation. Therefore the episode's use of evolution (though the end result is definitely fiction), and to a greater extent, all of ST, is a lot more sensible than using a creation myth.

RAMA
 
Scientific religion was responsible for the Inquisition, I think.

Religious science was responsible for the Crusades.

;)
 
I have to agree with the original poster. This episode tried too hard to send a message. Sure, I agree with the message, but didn't make for a great episode of Star Trek. Or the worst ever, either. Just... a missed opportunity, to tell some more interesting story.
 
^ The "message"? Dude, it was about talking dinosaurs! I don't think there was a message there except, "Hey! This is a episode about really cool talking dinosaurs!"
 
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