Disenchantment

[The Nth Doctor]

Regardless of how culture may have or may have not been during the early days of The Simpsons, there is absolutely no reason why Apu can't be rewritten now to remove the stereotypes and make him and his family a better representation of Indian culture. That was the main reason why Hari Kondabolu produced The Problem with Apu. I don't remember how clearly he made this point in the documentary itself, but he has said repeatedly interviews since that he doesn't want to get rid of Apu, rather he wants the character changed to better represent people like him.

Also, Craig Kilbron is an unfunny hack.

 

[thribs]

All this fuss with Apu when there is nothing wrong with him. Just the Internet making a fuss over nothing as usual.
As a Scot, Willy is the more offensive character. We don’t all wear kilts and shout obscenities at people.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

All this fuss with Apu when there is nothing wrong with him. Just the Internet making a fuss over nothing as usual.

I take it you haven't watched The Problem with Apu, otherwise you wouldn't be so dismissive. That or you don't think their (i.e. all of the Indian-Americans featured in it) opinions aren't valid.

 

[Christopher]

I'm not saying it's okay, just that it was considered normal.

Sure, it was around at the time in certain contexts, but The Simpsons took it farther than the typical prime-time TV show. The problem with the "it was a product of its time" defense is that every time has a wide range of different attitudes and approaches in its fiction; just because something was more socially acceptable in the past than it is today, that doesn't mean that everything featured it to exactly the same degree. (For instance, most '40s movies and radio shows were full of unthinking racism toward African-Americans, but there were creators like Jack Benny and Jacques Tourneur who were far more enlightened and refused to sink to racial stereotypes.) There were always some creators who were more enlightened than the average and others who were more intolerant or insensitive than the average. And The Simpsons was toward the less sensitive end of the spectrum even then.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I don't know, looking for better representation from The Simpsons of all things seems a bit odd. Are there any characters that aren't exaggerations or stereotypes? And who can say, maybe Apu got a foot in the door for some of those that followed as shown in that video?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I agree that they should update the character today to be a more realistic Indian. They aren't making enough of an effort. Or any of their other stereotype characters like Luigi.

I haven't seen The Problem With Apu but I've seen the episode of Master of None titled 'Indians on TV'. It's insulting.

But I point to Saturday Night Live characters from the 90s. Cajun Man. An Italian restaurant where the waiters just openly hit on the woman. The famous Christopher Walken character 'The Continental'.

 

[thribs]

What, like the modern Indians in Goodness Gracious Me?

You know The Simpsons is Indian right?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

As far as Disenchantment itself goes, I'm used to broader fantasy parody like Korgoth of Barbaria. I've only watched two episodes and wasn't all that moved by the more gentle sort of "folklore" type comedy but it sounds like it picks up a bit so I'll head back to finish it up sooner or later.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

I take it you haven't watched The Problem with Apu, otherwise you wouldn't be so dismissive. That or you don't think their (i.e. all of the Indian-Americans featured in it) opinions aren't valid.

Asian Indians don't give a flying crap about Apu. Most of them find him funny. The characters on their own "saas-bahu" TV serials are far worse, transparently stereotypical, than Apu ever was. Paan-chewing, hookah-smoking, corrupt evil shopowners with yellow teeth that hatch schemes to rip people off and make money and abuse their daughters.

I have a lot of Indian friends, and I asked all of them their opinions when this Internet faux-"outrage" erupted. They were literally like "Apu is funny," Apu is the man," "Apu is awesome," "Why do Americans care about this?" and the best one: "NRI's are so lucky to be there, and this is what they complain about? Aren't Indians usually the owners of small stores there anyway?" Yes, yes....they are.

So their opinions should matter just as much, I think.

But the bottom line is this....if Hari Kodabolu thinks that the Simpsons is stale and out of touch, how come it is still culturally-relevant after 30 years? Precisely no one knew who he was before his documentary. Precisely no one will know who he is in 30 years. And EVERY character on The Simpsons is a stereotype. That's the point of the show.

And he wants Apu to evolve, to be a millionaire and an owner of a chain of Kwik-E-Marts.....on a show where Bart is still in the 5th grade, Maggie is still a baby, and Mr. Burns is still alive when he should be 120 by now. The guy ain't very bright.

But he knows how to take advantage of the internet outrage culture for 15 minutes of fame. I'll give him that.

But I'll make him a deal. I'll campaign for the Simpsons to change Apu, if he goes with me to India to force the Hindi film industry to stop portraying white, Arab, Chinese and Korean characters as stereotypes in their movies. Americans, especially. That offends me!

Oh wait...no it doesn't. Because it's pointless to get so easily offended.

 

[JD]

All this fuss with Apu when there is nothing wrong with him. Just the Internet making a fuss over nothing as usual.
As a Scot, Willy is the more offensive character. We don’t all wear kilts and shout obscenities at people.

The way you feel about Willy, is exactly how Indian people feel about Apu.

 

[thribs]

The way you feel about Willy, is exactly how Indian people feel about Apu.

I don’t really care about Willy. I was joking.
In Scotland the real issue people have with Willy is where he’s from. Glasgow or Aberdeen?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I think the fuss about Apu is PC sensibility gone nuts but then I'm a regressive geriatric from the same generation as Groening.

 

[Awesome Possum]

If the only depiction of someone like you that you saw growing up was a stereotypical joke, which was used to mock you your entire life, you might not be so dismissive. It deeply affects you and taints how you see yourself.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

If the only depiction of someone like you that you saw growing up was a stereotypical joke, which was used to mock you your entire life, you might not be so dismissive. It deeply affects you and taints how you see yourself.

That's pretty much true of any character in The Simpsons. I'm not aware of any Indian person in the UK (and I know quite a few) being mocked for being like Apu - he's a pretty sympathetic character in any case. Humour seems to end up being cruel in some context - maybe we should just ban it.

 

[BillJ]

If the only depiction of someone like you that you saw growing up was a stereotypical joke, which was used to mock you your entire life, you might not be so dismissive. It deeply affects you and taints how you see yourself.

I am sympathetic to the idea that Apu should be voiced by someone either from India, or of Indian descent. While there are jokes at Apu's expense, I also see a character that is presented as a hard worker and someone who is proud of his culture (based on the first ten seasons, I've probably seen ten episodes total over the last nineteen seasons). Humor often exploits our foibles, whether on a personal or cultural level.

Plus, Homer Simpson never tainted how I saw myself. Homer (like Peter Griffin after him) was a fat, lazy, uneducated, middle class white slob who has no interest in bettering himself or changing his view of the world.

 

[HarryCanyon1982]

Fun show! at least Matt Groening is doing something different as Futurama ended on a good note while the rotting corpse of The Simpsons is on the air still and needs to die a horrible death as it's a zombie now, that show died in 2001 for me.

 

[Christopher]

I'm not aware of any Indian person in the UK (and I know quite a few) being mocked for being like Apu - he's a pretty sympathetic character in any case.

I don't think the UK experience is analogous to the US experience. After all, there are lots of Anglo-Indians in UK fiction and everyday life. Indian or Indian-American characters are a lot rarer in American film and TV, so for many Americans, Apu was the only media image of Indian-Americans that they saw growing up.

I have to admit that this is pretty close to my experience in the past. Growing up, I had little exposure to Indian characters in fiction or Indian-American people in real life. Basically there was Khan in Star Trek, and he was played by a Mexican actor. The first time I recall encountering the stereotypical Indian accent in film or TV was in Fisher Stevens's Indian-stereotype character in the Short Circuit films, a role that was seen as sympathetic at the time (he was the only human character who returned for the sequel) but has aged quite badly. I didn't even know what accent he was doing when I first saw the film. Apu was my second exposure to the Indian-stereotype accent. Of course, it was obvious to me from the start that both characters were broad, comic caricatures, but I didn't see much of anything in the way of more naturalistic, authentic portrayals of Indian-Americans to balance them out. When the caricature is all you get, it's a problem.

 

[BillJ]

Reading this article, I do agree that Apu at this point is anachronistic, and should be put out to pasture. But I think The Simpsons should have been put out to pasture in 1998.

https://newrepublic.com/article/147980/epiphany-problem-apu-simpsons

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Yes, it's well past its use-by date.

 

[BillJ]

Interesting interview with The Simpsons' writer Mike Reiss, who has been there from the beginning.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...att-groening-history-springfield-confidential

Reiss’s response to Azaria displays some of the defiance that’s come to define the Simpsons writers’ room. “Though there’s a lot of discussion on Apu,” Reiss told me in an interview, “he’s barely had a line in the past three seasons. Hank Azaria saying he won’t voice the character anymore is like Val Kilmer announcing he won’t play Batman again—no one’s asking him to.” Reiss also said that the writers have been aware since even before Kondabolu’s documentary that there were issues with the heavily accented Indian-American convenience-store owner.

“There is all this hoopla about Apu, and the fact is we were cued into this three or four years ago. We did an episode then to address it,” he said. That was January 2016’s “Much Apu About Something,” which introduces Apu’s nephew Jay, a Wharton graduate who has shortened his first name from Jamshed—and is voiced, without an accent, by Utkarsh Ambudkar, an Indian-American actor.