Discovery to get tie-ins!

[Christopher]

Same CBS Consumer Products staff approving. I would say that Pocket has had plenty of "leeway" over the years.

I think that's the key -- the difference in the culture/mentality of how to approach tie-ins. CBS (formerly Paramount) has generally been pretty flexible about licensing and has maintained a light hand, at least since the Richard Arnold era ended. But Bad Robot prefers to maintain more direct control over how their ideas get used. That's why we see Prime elements showing up in Kelvin comics (since that's CBS's call) but not Kelvin elements showing up in Prime novels (since that's Bad Robot's call).

I didn't say that Pocket's needs outweighed anyone else's.

You said you had no doubt that it would happen if Pocket needed it to happen. That certainly implies that Pocket's needs would dictate the decision, but that's not true. The ideas belong to Bad Robot, so it's their decision that determines whether Pocket gets to use them. You might need to borrow your neighbor's car, say, but you can't make them loan it to you if they don't want to. If they trust you to take good care of their car, then they'll probably lend it to you if your need is sufficient. But if they're more reluctant to trust others with their property -- if, say, they had their car damaged the last time they loaned it to someone -- then they may refuse to lend it to you despite your need. Since it belongs to them, the decision is dictated by their wishes, not by anyone else's needs.

Declaring a planet extinguished to continue a timeline is a little different to four whole stories set between two movies that were threatening to overrule the novels' storylines anyway.

It's different from Pocket's point of view. But Bad Robot is under no obligation to follow their wishes. Their responsibility is to their own productions and intellectual property, and they have the right to decide when, whether, and how to loan it out.

Really, I never understood why Pocket rushed the timeline forward so far in the first few years after 2009. At the time, the books were only up to 2381. The DS9 post-finale novels took five years just to get through 2376; if the post-Destiny novels had advanced at that pace, we'd only be up to early 2383 by now. But for some reason, starting with Typhon Pact, the novels started jumping forward at an accelerated pace, so that they were 4 years further ahead after just 5 years or so of real time. So if Pocket is now close to butting up against the 2387 limit, it's a bed we've made for ourselves.

It's strange that the novels were commissioned by Pocket (and synopses approved?) in the first place.

I figure it's because the relationship between CBS/Pocket and Paramount/Bad Robot was new and it took a while to feel out how it would work. CBS and Pocket just went forward on momentum, starting a new Trek tie-in line the way they normally would, but it turned out that wasn't how Bad Robot wanted to proceed. It just took time to sort that out.

 

[Jarvisimo]

Really, I never understood why Pocket rushed the timeline forward so far in the first few years after 2009. At the time, the books were only up to 2381. The DS9 post-finale novels took five years just to get through 2376; if the post-Destiny novels had advanced at that pace, we'd only be up to early 2383 by now. But for some reason, starting with Typhon Pact, the novels started jumping forward at an accelerated pace, so that they were 4 years further ahead after just 5 years or so of real time. So if Pocket is now close to butting up against the 2387 limit, it's a bed we've made for ourselves.

I guess we are lucky we have the slow-go approach of Kirsten Beyer's books, which feel much closer in spirit to the original DS9R and its slow pace and intricate levels of characterisation.

On a related note, I think the fast jumps in time really made DS9 suffer the most too - even though the Pact, Fall and other novels have allowed exciting developments for some DS9 characters. That wonderful level of detail, the minificence of the original relaunch and the finery of its microarchitecture, really is gone Except in Voyager

 

[Destructor]

On a related note, I think the fast jumps in time really made DS9 suffer the most too - even though the Pact, Fall and other novels have allowed exciting developments for some DS9 characters. That wonderful level of detail, the minificence of the original relaunch and the finery of its microarchitecture, really is gone Except in Voyager

I feel that way too. Up until 'Soul Key' it felt like we were tuning into the regular adventures of the station. Then all of a sudden the crews are scattered to the far winds and I don't know what's going on.

 

[rahullak]

Great news! Big fan of KMFB and DM. So, if we're gonna have slam-bang action in the novels, what does that tell us about the stuff on-screen?

 

[donners22]

Glad to hear it; given the short seasons, some extra content is welcome. I haven't read much Trek fiction in the last decade, but will give this a go.

It's fortunate that the show has a decent TV deal outside the US, unlike its predecessors.

I used to read some of the novels before seeing the show, which caused all sorts of confusion when the poor writers were working from outdated information (extending to calling the EMH "Zimmerman" in one, IIRC).

 

[Christopher]

I used to read some of the novels before seeing the show, which caused all sorts of confusion when the poor writers were working from outdated information (extending to calling the EMH "Zimmerman" in one, IIRC).

I think there were several that did that.

 

[The Wormhole]

Actually, even taking into account that those authors were working from early casting information, isn't it still odd they referred to the character as "Dr. Zimmerman?" After all, the intent was to make Zimmerman the ultimate conclusion to his season long search of a name, and the storyline of him trying to decide on a name is still in the final version of the show. So shouldn't the authors have held off on calling him Zimmerman until such time as it was worked in on the show?

 

[Markonian]

I always wondered - wouldn't his name be legally Zimmerman anyway, because he is sentient and the offspring of Lewis? But then, Data wasn't Mr Soong and Worf wasn't Rozhenko either.

 

[Christopher]

I always wondered - wouldn't his name be legally Zimmerman anyway, because he is sentient and the offspring of Lewis? But then, Data wasn't Mr Soong and Worf wasn't Rozhenko either.

Well, his legal status as a person wasn't formally defined until at least "Author, Author," so there would be no legal standard for that. Legally, his program's name would be whatever Dr. Zimmerman trademarked (if they still have trademarks in a moneyless society, though "Author, Author" did imply that intellectual property rights still matter). And that name is "Emergency Medical Hologram Mark I," plus whatever individual serial number applied to that particular copy of the software.

Data, of course, was not "Mr. Soong" because he didn't know he was created by Noonien Soong until he was 27 or so. Although that plot point was rendered problematical when they later decided to cast Brent Spiner as Soong. How could nobody know that Soong had created an android that not only used the positronic technology he theorized, but looked exactly like him?

For that matter, it isn't even necessarily required for an offspring to share a parent's surname. Technically, a newborn's legal name is the one chosen for them at birth and entered on their birth certificate. Having that name be the surname of the father or mother, or both, is a matter of cultural convention. Some states, for instance, legally define a married woman's surname as her husband's surname, but there are many that have revoked that rule. There are many human cultures that don't use surnames the way we Westerners do, although most of those do have some form of patronymic or matronymic.

Worf's son does go by Alexander Rozhenko, which implies that Rozhenko is Worf's legal surname. Peter David's young-adult Starfleet Academy novellas called him Worf Rozhenko. I can only surmise that he chose not to go by his human family name because it wasn't Klingon enough. Unfortunately, we didn't see his personnel file in "Conundrum," so we don't know how his name is officially rendered in Starfleet records.

Hmm... Both Klingons and Russians use patronymics, and he does go by Worf, Son of Mogh as his full Klingon name. So it stands to reason that his full name would actually be Worf Moghovich Rozhenko.

 

[Jinn]

Worf's son does go by Alexander Rozhenko, which implies that Rozhenko is Worf's legal surname.

Was Alexander first identified as Alexander Rozhenko after he moved to Worf's human parents? If that were the case, maybe he adopted their name, while Worf still goes by Worf Moghovich.

 

[Christopher]

Was Alexander first identified as Alexander Rozhenko after he moved to Worf's human parents? If that were the case, maybe he adopted their name, while Worf still goes by Worf Moghovich.

It debuted in "New Ground," so yeah, it was after he went to live with the Rozhenkos. But it could work either way. I mean, young Worf was in the same situation as Alexander -- a Klingon minor adopted by the Rozhenko family. It stands to reason that, as a minor, he would've been assigned that family's surname, and upon majority he had the option to legally change it to whatever he wished.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But if Worf was assigned a name in Russian style, wouldn't his middle name be Sergeyevich, because he's Sergey's adopted son? How does the Russian naming system handle things like this?

 

[Kemaiku]

This will sound naive, but I'm surprised that Romulus can't be destroyed just because it was in ST11. So Pocket can't ever have an incident if it is similar to one in the Kelvin Timeline, even if they don't mention Nero or Spock's involvement or red matter? Bummer that it only flows in one direction.

In the novelverse, the Empire has already split into two major sub-states after the schism Shinzon created. (Try saying that outloud)

So presumably, Hobus isn't dead center between them, devastating a whole region of space is something that's going to get talked about, especially if it just happens to only obliterate one side of that arrangement. It makes the state that didn't explode, suddenly have all the power of the Empire, free to claim all of Romluan territory.

Which if that happens to be the Typhon Pact...uh oh.

 

[Christopher]

In the novelverse, the Empire has already split into two major sub-states after the schism Shinzon created. (Try saying that outloud)

That only lasted for a year, in-story.

 

[Jinn]

In the novelverse, the Empire has already split into two major sub-states after the schism Shinzon created. (Try saying that outloud)

So presumably, Hobus isn't dead center between them, devastating a whole region of space is something that's going to get talked about, especially if it just happens to only obliterate one side of that arrangement. It makes the state that didn't explode, suddenly have all the power of the Empire, free to claim all of Romluan territory.

Which if that happens to be the Typhon Pact...uh oh.

Did you read TP: "Rough Beasts of Empire"?

 

[Kemaiku]

One year?

How does an Empire that size with a population that great splitting into a Federation loving side and a Typhon side hug it out in a year?

Ugh.

 

[Jinn]

One year?

How does an Empire that size with a population that great splitting into a Federation loving side and a Typhon side hug it out in a year?

Ugh.

Wasn't it established that only a couple of planets were part of the IRS, but that these were the important agricultural planets? Also Kamemor sorta pleases both sides, as she is more Federation friendly than her predecessors, but still remains the RSI in the TP.

And: No, I never write a full word or three when there is an abbreviation

 

[JD]

It debuted in "New Ground," so yeah, it was after he went to live with the Rozhenkos. But it could work either way. I mean, young Worf was in the same situation as Alexander -- a Klingon minor adopted by the Rozhenko family. It stands to reason that, as a minor, he would've been assigned that family's surname, and upon majority he had the option to legally change it to whatever he wished.

I was actually just wondering about this recently.

 

[Christopher]

One year?

How does an Empire that size with a population that great splitting into a Federation loving side and a Typhon side hug it out in a year?

Ugh.

It is an empire, after all. Empires aren't generally formed with the consent of their subject worlds.

 

[Idran]

How does an Empire that size with a population that great splitting into a Federation loving side and a Typhon side hug it out in a year?

They didn't hug it out. Quoting from Memory Beta since it summarizes it better than I could:

Spoiler: Imperial Romulan State/Rough Beasts of Empire spoilers

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Romulan_State

As of late 2381, however, no official relationship had been formally created between the Federation and the Imperial Romulan State aside from discussions of expanding their relationship. This had been seen by Empress Donatra as a problem especially when she came under an attack by Praetor Tal'Aura. Tal'Aura launched a propaganda campaign against the Imperial Romulan State and Donatra herself calling for reunification of the Romulan Empires. When Donatra agreed to meet with Tal'Aura, she was quickly arrested on fabricated evidence implicating her in the attempted murder ofAmbassador Spock of Vulcan. Without a leader, the Imperial Romulan State was reabsorbed into the Romulan Star Empire one month following Donatra's arrest. (ST - Typhon Pact novel: Rough Beasts of Empire)

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Donatra

In 2381 Donatra and the Imperial Romulan State became the targets of a propaganda campaign devised by Praetor Tal'Aura to reunify the Romulan Empires. Tal'Aura fabricated evidence that Donatra had hired a Reman assassin to terminate Ambassador Spock on Romulus which was misinterpreted by Spock as being a response to fear by the Empress to protect her own Empire. He theorized that Donatra would order his death to stop the reunification movement as it would lead to efforts to reunify Romulus itself. Donatra was in fact innocent of these crimes; however, the damage had been done. Spock presented his theory to the Praetor and she made the reunification movement legal in Romulan territory and it quickly splintered into an effort to reunify the Romulan Empire. Donatra reached out to Tal'Aura in order to seek out a new relationship beneficial to the Romulan people itself when the campaign started to fracture the perception of the citizens of her Empire and the Federation refused to provide military assistance. Tal'Aura instead invited Donatra to Romulus, an invitation that she accepted.

Immediately after she arrived, Tal'Aura had Donatra arrested for her crime against Spock. Donatra was held in a cell at the D'deridex Arc security office. One month later, Tal'Aura announced that the Imperial Romulan State had been reabsorbed into the Romulan Star Empire and was no more. Donatra, who had not been formally charged, killed herself in her cell one day following the announcement, cutting herself with a broken data tablet and bleeding to death--although it seems likely that her suicide was staged, her death actually coming at the hands of Tal'Aura or her forces.(ST - Typhon Pact novel: Rough Beasts of Empire)