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Discovery Size Argument™ thread

If one doesn't do at least some knocking down and exploding of preconceived expectations and interpretations, then those in-the-know can never be set on equal footing with the know-nothings, which more or less defeats one of the primary purposes of the exercise. I'd say the trick is to knock it down first, and then find some way of putting the pieces back together in a cohesive manner. For me, DSC has been doing pretty well on that score. But YMMV.

What actually drew me into DW seriously—after having only dabbled (though quite enthusiastially) in Tom Baker/Peter Davison as a young child, when they would be sporadically shown here on PBS—was in fact "The Name Of The Doctor" and the 50th anniversary special that followed. The introduction of the War Doctor was a serious knockdown for the longtimers. But it meant that they and I were together experiencing a totally unfamiliar Doctor (and yet somehow still familiar, as always) and unexpected left turn (no pun intended) in the saga. For some it was the final end, or so they huffed. For me, it was a new beginning.

While I'm now looking forward to Whittaker and Chibnall's new take with bated breath, I doubt I ever would have taken the plunge into watching through the entire filmed history (and I do mean all of it, recons of missing episodes, spinoffs and all) if it hadn't been for Moffat's abidingly equal willingness to both reach so deeply into the show's past and irreverently "muck about" with it simultaneously! It was (mostly) great fun, and I came away with a real sense of having "the whole picture" but also one of knowing that any of it could be totally upended with the next revelation. (Sort of like an extension of the cliffhangers in the early years, where they'd build up your expectations for what was about to happen, and then unceremoniously sidestep it entirely with in the following installment!) A sense of knowing that the story doesn't end, especially not if it loops back on and tangles itself up in knots, and the picture is never complete, even if it seems perfectly fine and beautiful as it is, like Bob Ross (thanks again PBS!) you can always slap something else on top of it that totally rearranges it! As he might say, don't be afraid. It won't ruin the picture. (Unless your name is George Lucas...in which case sell it to Disney and leave the Mouse to deal with the mess.)

Myself, I have no complaints about the SW films right now, because I both quite liked the reverent Rogue One (except the CGI Tarkin & especially Leia, NOT good, creepy AF) and absolutely loved the wonderfully deconstructive Last Jedi (though it was bit long and meandering in places, I think it may have needed it and woudn't actually have been better for being trimmed down). I can't help being slightly apprehensive about Abrams coming back to direct IX, but I'll roll with it and try to go in with no foreknowledge or expectations (as I did with TLJ). Jurassic World I didn't really care for, tbh (still haven't seen Fallen Kingdom) but actually Wu being made into an antagonist was one of my favorite parts! Only ever seen a couple episodes of the original X-Files (I remember one where they were trapped on a ship where they couldn't drink the water?) and the first movie, but perhaps someday I'll take that plunge as well. Alas, not enough hours in the day at present! (Barely enough for this!)

Anyway, different strokes for different folks. I'd like to think I've grown past equating "I don't like it" with "it's bad." (I'm not quite sure about the inverse, though; I kind of figure if something manages to get you to like it, even a little, then no matter what its flaws may be, it's at least a partly successful endeavor on that front.) But there's always more growing to do! "The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it." Or shall it?

-MMoM:D

I think the war Doctor wasn’t a knockdown at all. Moffat slot him into a fairly natural gap, and I don’t remember any backlash on it at all. It helped it was John Hurt for some I expect. Moffat is really good at that, and Who in general got really good at it in the novels. The Krotons got rehabbed (in an episode where people are after the doctors future corpse....)
 
klingon-holograms.jpg

Nope, only six holograms.

I see seven :)
 
Nope. My joining here is the only brush I have with any organised fandoms of any of the things I am a fan of. I was invited to the Doctor Who pub, the arms, back when moffat was just a punter and the new series had just started, but I never got round to it. Shame. I think I may have enjoyed it.
It's funny, because I almost never visit the DW forum here (probably afraid of how many more hours that would consume)...but of the few occasions when I have, on more than one I've become embroiled in arguments over whether and how the War Doctor reveal fit in with the continuity:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the...scussion-spoilers.233875/page-23#post-9161227
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/lak...generation-issues.277810/page-3#post-11404102

I see seven :)
That's hilarious, you are absolutely right! Good catch!
:guffaw:

(Still leaves up to 17 entirely unseen House Leaders, though!)

-MMoM:D
 
I see seven :)
Jesus, I'm miserable at counting :D I too stand corrected!

That being said I kinda had this "theory" (more of a hypothesis, but theory sounds more fancy) that the only houses that followed T'Kuvma's call were the onces lead by DSC Klingons (as opposed to TMP Klingons) and the six seven holograms we see all represent three three point four three or four ships each.
 
Jesus, I'm miserable at counting :D I too stand corrected!
Don't feel bad, I am too! Or three, rather!:)

That being said I kinda had this "theory" (more of a hypothesis, but theory sounds more fancy) that the only houses that followed T'Kuvma's call were the onces lead by DSC Klingons (as opposed to TMP Klingons) and the six seven holograms we see all represent three three point four three or four ships each.
Which would just make Michael wrong again, here! It tallies. (Unless we've miscalculated there too...)

-MMoM:D
 
Oh, did she say that there were ships from all 24 houses? Sorry, it's been some time since I watched the episodes. I guess that falsifies my hypothesis.
Rather, she assumed it in "Battle At The Binary Stars" (DSC)...

GEORGIOU: How many Klingon vessels have entered the system?
SARU: Tracking...24, Captain.
BURNHAM: The Klingon High Council consists of 24 houses...that can't be a coincidence. The number of ships...it suggests that someone is attempting to unify the Empire again. Against us.

But of course, a central element of the story was her misjudgment and misuse of logic!:vulcan:

-MMoM:D
 
Still, I have to admit it took Beyond and The Last Jedi before I began to really ease up on J.J. Abrams, by which I mean that I found those to complement and recontextualize his efforts that preceded them in a way that offset my initial misgivings and enabled me to enjoy them significantly more than I had in isolation
So, how you learned how to stop hating and love Abrams? :D
I presumed the detail oriented people here would know.
I am detail oriented about starships, uniform and a lot of different aliens but I did not know that.
 
So, how you learned how to stop hating and love Abrams? :D
Love is a...strong word. There are still things about his style that rub me the wrong way, and I don't mean due to any nitpicky minutiae. But I am certainly no hater, if I ever really could have been called such. And I recognize that others are every bit as valid in genuinely loving him as I am in my comparative indifference.

I am detail oriented about starships, uniform and a lot of different aliens but I did not know that.
Neither did I. Alas, I never learned to read Klingon! (Definitely not enough hours in the day for that!) But those terms were never used in canon anyway, AFAIK. (Not that anyone is obliged to care about that either way.)

-MMoM:D
 
Well, I guess I'm not totally out of the race yet!
Meant to also note that following the revelation of the Cleave Ship and resulting destruction of the Europa, fresh Klingon reinforcements consisting of at least ten additional ships appear to warp in (we see and hear according flashes for each) and join the fray. Were they all T'Kuvma's own reserves? Someone else's? It isn't entirely clear.

vlcsnap-2017-12-22-19h00m00s479.png

vlcsnap-2017-12-22-19h23m00s892.png


-MMoM:D
 
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