Discovery Showrunners fired; Kurtzman takes over

[starsuperion]

The diversity thing has become really tired. And I really would like to know if all the people complaining about "how it should be equal distrabution" made the same protests in the past. Look at Voyager, the supposed previously most diverse cast. It had the following breakdown:

3 white men
2 white women
1 Black man
1 Asian man
1 Hispanic man
1 Latino woman

While it's great that it had such cross-culture representation, at the end of the day, white men made up 1/3 of the entire cast and men 2/3. That's not equal distribution.

And trying to include anyone and everyone is obviously not practical. And that's also true from an 'in-world' perspective, as well. Some crews will have more men. Some will have more women. Some crews will have several nonbinary and others won't have any.

There have been five Star Trek crews with more men. Now there's one with more women. Accept it an move on. It's a good great thing. Really.

Yea, but your reasoning should come with a caveat. Are they qualified for the job, or just hired based on race, sex, and sexual preference status? If the latter, then that's not reason enough, and the art can suffer because of a lack of a qualified individual, when you choose arbitrarily superficial reasons to hire someone, don't expect that to necessarily translate into professional performance, just because of representation quotas. As Martin Luther king Jr once said, we should be judged on the content of our character, not race, sex, or orientation. To do so, however noble or convoluted the reasoning, is simply racist and sexist. The irony with ignorant people focusing on such things in their hiring practices is mind boggling, and equally so that such a focus ignores the blatant bias such casting and hiring promotes.

 

[BillJ]

Yea, but your reasoning should come with a caveat. Are they qualified for the job, or just hired based on race, sex, and sexual preference status?

There are more than enough qualified actors in Hollywood that you should be able to make pretty much any mix you want.

 

[starsuperion]

There are more than enough qualified actors in Hollywood that you should be able to make pretty much any mix you want.

This is true assuming the focus is on acting and not superficial reasonings. Which we clearly see time and again, is hit or miss...

 

[BillJ]

This is true assuming the focus is on acting and not superficial reasonings. Which we clearly see time and again, is hit or miss...

There's not one actor on Discovery that doesn't deserve to be there based on their talent. The acting was pretty much a home run. Same can be said for the Abrams films.

 

[dahj]

As Martin Luther king Jr once said, we should be judged on the content of our character, not race, sex, or orientation.

Are you seriously using MLK Jr to complain about black people getting jobs that they were previously excluded from due to the overwhelming whiteness of the industry.

 

[starsuperion]

There's not one actor on Discovery that doesn't deserve to be there based on their talent. The acting was pretty much a home run.

That's your subjective opinion. There are plenty out here that would beg to differ, I myself included. I found Sonequa's portryal wooden and stiff. The acting shallow and the scripts written for her, lacking character development and pizaz. She's a boring character, in a boring bickering series, too dark, and too fan fiction feeling for me to ever consider STD a success.

 

[BillJ]

...and the scripts written for her, lacking character development and pizaz. She's a boring character, in a boring bickering series, too dark, and too fan fiction feeling for me to ever consider STD a success.

So you admit the writing is terrible, then try to blame Martin-Green for the show being poor? Doesn't make much sense.

Sometimes the writing is so poor, the actor is simply stuck. No other actor could have made lemonade out of the chicken shit she was straddled with.

 

[starsuperion]

Are you seriously using MLK Jr to complain about black people getting jobs that they were previously excluded from due to the overwhelming whiteness of the industry.

No that's you trying to a allege something that's just not there, because the implication that hiring based on superficial reasons is flawed and actually racist, sexist, and bigoted, and you don't want to acknowledge that. Pointing it out is correct. Because as Mr. King said, we should be judged on character and ability. Not our exterior color, sex or interior sexual preference feelings.

 

[Arpy]

We all need representation; 1) to reiterate our continued existence, 2) to explore what that existence might be like.

It's not enough to have a background character look like you (though, that should be the standard, no matter what happens in the foreground), but it's important to do the same in the fore, for everyone, including straight white males who are both competent and decent.

VOY had more males than females, but the lead was a female, so she got more airtime. It's kind of a shame Kes didn't stick around though. Seven had better stories, but neither she nor Janeway were the most girly, never mind B'Elanna. It's important to be able to reach every part of the spectrum.

TNG was great in that you got both hyper masculine Worf and quasi-autistic Data. Proper Picard and broad-chested Riker. Hot chocolate Troi and Tasha: Warrior Princess. And just some damn fine professionals in La Forge and Crusher; really, with everyone, except Troi at times (thank goodness for "Face of the Enemy," after "Disaster"...Sirtis put it right, talking to the writers 'Didn't she go to Starfleet Academy, like everybody else?').

...I wonder if part of the reason for the heavy female presence in DSC is to get more women into Trek/Sci-Fi? Would a Trek series with 3/4ths women in the cast get more female viewers for all the series? Much as I am about "balance in the force," I might be alright with that. If it worked, though I'd be disappointed in us silly humans if it did.

 

[BillJ]

No that's you trying to a allege something that's just not there, because the implication that hiring based on superficial reasons is flawed and actually racist, sexist, and bigoted, and you don't want to acknowledge that.

So you know, for a fact, that these actors were hired for superficial reasons? Please, do tell your source! And, were the white actors also hired for superficial reasons?

 

[dahj]

No that's you trying to a allege something that's just not there

You are the one who is alleging the only reason SM-G was hired is because she was black.

 

[starsuperion]

So you admit the writing is terrible, then try to blame Martin-Green for the show being poor? Doesn't make much sense.

Sometimes the writing is so poor, the actor is simply stuck. No other actor could have made lemonade out of the chicken shit she was straddled with.

No the writing sucked and her portrayal sucked as well. So how do we reconcile that? Would it just be the writing? No other actors can take a shit script and still be successful. Its down to talent. Nothing more.

 

[BillJ]

Its down to talent. Nothing more.

Bullshit. It is down to: "why don't I see more white people?!?".

 

[starsuperion]

You are the one who is alleging the only reason SM-G was hired is because she was black.

No I'm stating how the focus on diversity hiring forgets the tenants that we all are supposed to aspire to. Content of character should trump race, sex, and orientation. To do so in reverse and tout this as "progress" is a lie and blatantly racist, sexist and bigoted. That's truth, no matter what historical facts and supposedly altruistic reasonings are put forward.

 

[SITZKRIEG!]

There's not one actor on Discovery that doesn't deserve to be there based on their talent. The acting was pretty much a home run. Same can be said for the Abrams films.

Except for the lead who, despite doing a good job in The Walking Dead, was a big dud IMO. Now I'll admit that part of that is due to the overall poor writing/direction of the show overall but certainly not all of it. I think she was the weakest link in the show's cast and her character should have been retired after her laughable "redemption" arc... oh, and bring prime Lorca and Culber back and promote Tilly and Saru while we're at it in fantasy land.

 

[Tuskin38]

No I'm stating how the focus on diversity hiring forgets the tenants that we all are supposed to aspire to. Content of character should trump race, sex, and orientation. To do so in reverse and tout this as "progress" is a lie and blatantly racist, sexist and bigoted. That's truth, no matter what historical facts and supposedly altruistic reasonings are put forward.

Her acting was fine in TWD.

 

[Longinus]

So you admit the writing is terrible, then try to blame Martin-Green for the show being poor? Doesn't make much sense.

Sometimes the writing is so poor, the actor is simply stuck. No other actor could have made lemonade out of the chicken shit she was straddled with.

Yep, actors are the bright spot if this series. It is testament to Martin-Green's skill that despite the utterly horrible story I still ended up liking her character.

 

[starsuperion]

Bullshit. It is down to: "why don't I see more white people?!?".

NO...That's your subjective opinion. That's you trying to twist my opinion to fit a narrative. That is not what I am saying. If the black actor is more qualified for a role, he should get the part, regardless of his skin color or being male, or hetero or gay.

 

[Ridcully]

The complainalots are back....

 

[Tuskin38]

That's your subjective opinion. That's you trying to twist my opinion to fit a narrative. That is not what I am saying. If the black actor is more qualified for a role, he should get the part, regardless of his skin color or being male, or hetero or gay.

So what you're saying is casting should be colour blind.