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Discovery Showrunners fired; Kurtzman takes over

I guess people don't remember when Ron Moore talked about how restrictive the Trek canon became when trying to establish backstories during the later seasons of TNG and DS9. When you have this massive pile of canon to deal with, setting something post-Voyager is going to encounter much of the same problems as a prequel series. As others have said, the best way do Trek is to start over completely - no divergent universe created by a villain, but a complete clean slate, like what JMS' abandoned series concept proposed. There is so much previously-established conventions and history, the shows become almost impenetrable unless you know the entirety of the backstory.
 
Does anyone believe the CBS line about a "planned production hiatus" now that the first five episodes have been filmed?
TV series usually build hiatus weeks into their schedules these days to give everyone some time to recover and to give the writer's room some time to stay ahead. I tend to believe CBS' statement wasn't a load of bunk.
 
Bear in mind I like the 23rd Century, but...

I guess people don't remember when Ron Moore talked about how restrictive the Trek canon became when trying to establish backstories during the later seasons of TNG and DS9. When you have this massive pile of canon to deal with, setting something post-Voyager is going to encounter much of the same problems as a prequel series. As others have said, the best way do Trek is to start over completely - no divergent universe created by a villain, but a complete clean slate, like what JMS' abandoned series concept proposed. There is so much previously-established conventions and history, the shows become almost impenetrable unless you know the entirety of the backstory.

If you set it 100 years after TNG/DS9/VOY, it's less of an issue. Why do I say this? Because how often in 2018 do you talk about 1918? Unless you're a history buff, probably not a lot.

That being said... no way am I interested in some crazy-tech mental warfare series.
 
Personally, my idea for a post-Voyager series is exploring techno-pathic aliens and techno-pathic technology. We haven't had much of that in Trek yet, but there were hints that it was going to be rolled out by the 25th century.

Basically that means the ability for species to control technology with their minds. You could write some really cerebral stories on par with FX's LEGION with this kind of premise. You could explore alternate realities like something out of Nolan's Inception where the laws of physics are reimagined.

I could imagine a series villain being someone who could theoretically hack into Federation starships mentally and use them as weapons. Kind of like the enhanced version of Barclay in TNG's Ninth Degree.
They can do all of that on Discovery.
 
Does anyone believe the CBS line about a "planned production hiatus" now that the first five episodes have been filmed?

I'm just hazarding a guess here, but after the opening arc, dealing with Pike, Spock, and flashbacks to Bunham's past, perhaps Berg and Harberts were finding the well was running a little dry, and didn't have solid ideas about where to take the season. They started taking their frustration out on the writing team for not being able to break the creative logjam. Thus they were fired in part due to abusing the writing staff, but they began lashing out because they were losing the thread and knew it.

I wouldn't trust the CBS line. The network and the showrunners have been quite deceptive about the true goings-on for this show, understandably so.

With regards to the direction of the series.... IMO it won't be long before they start relying on 'KHAN', as the next gimmick to keep STD afloat. Maybe a female 'Khan' to be the mortal enemy of Michael Burnham....Khan-ie, lol.
 
They can do all of that on Discovery.

Not with Kurtzman and friends. But it would also create big continuity issues if it happened during the TOS era.

It would be as awkward as the silly Spore Drive nonsense, which really doesn't belong a few years before TOS.

Personally, I'd love for a post-Voyager series to gradually introduce a modernized and evolved version of one of the most dangerous species in Trek history:

15nr3a8.jpg


The Talosians. Bringing Star Trek full circle to it's origins. Would be amazing if they found a way to survive and exist beyond the confines of our universe and exist in some type of pocket reality/alternate reality. And they have the ability to reshape reality, almost like Thanos in Infinity War. Potentially horrifying stuff.
 
I wouldn't trust the CBS line. The network and the showrunners have been quite deceptive about the true goings-on for this show, understandably so.

With regards to the direction of the series.... IMO it won't be long before they start relying on 'KHAN', as the next gimmick to keep STD afloat. Maybe a female 'Khan' to be the mortal enemy of Michael Burnham....Khan-ie, lol.
Are you for real?
 
Well if they wanted to do a Talosians show they could just go with my idea of doing a Pike and Vina living on their planet show. They help the races they enslaved and also the Talosians while living in a Matrix style enviroment where anything you imagine can be conjured up. Including maybe long distant mental trips to other planets. Even use the new Pike actor if he works out.

Jason
 
Well if they wanted to do a Talosians show they could just go with my idea of doing a Pike and Vina living on their planet show. They help the races they enslaved and also the Talosians while living in a Matrix style enviroment where anything you imagine can be conjured up. Including maybe long distant mental trips to other planets. Even use the new Pike actor if he works out.

Jason

Sounds like something that could be cool on its own. I don't need the Star Trek trappings to be interested.
 
Personally, I'd love for a post-Voyager series to gradually introduce a modernized and evolved version of one of the most dangerous species in Trek history:

15nr3a8.jpg


The Talosians. Bringing Star Trek full circle to it's origins. Would be amazing if they found a way to survive and exist beyond the confines of our universe and exist in some type of pocket reality/alternate reality. And they have the ability to reshape reality, almost like Thanos in Infinity War. Potentially horrifying stuff.
Post Voyager might happen one day but if Discovery fails it will drag down the whole franchise and make that less likely. So in some ways it is to Star Trek's advantage that Discovery not completely fracture.
 
Well if they wanted to do a Talosians show they could just go with my idea of doing a Pike and Vina living on their planet show. They help the races they enslaved and also the Talosians while living in a Matrix style enviroment where anything you imagine can be conjured up. Including maybe long distant mental trips to other planets. Even use the new Pike actor if he works out.

Jason

I'm the biggest fan of Pike on here most likely, but even I wouldn't want a planetary series centered around him.

The Talosians, however, so much unexplored potential. Especially if their abilities have evolved and expanded by the 25th century. They could be a Thanos-level threat if done right.

They'd be more psychological villains to outsmart, than physical villains to battle.
 
DS9 relied on many elements of aspects already established in TNG in order to thrive. And DS9 is regarded by most fans as the pinnacle of great Star Trek.
Now. It wasn't at the time.
The major flaw with your argument is you claim this prequel nonsense is a better alternative that doing a Trek series in the post-Voyager era..
Since that isn't my argument, I'm going to say that is irrelevant.
The truth is a post-Voyager series has less of a mandate to be self-referential and tied to canon, than a prequel set a few years before Captain Kirk.
This is true. It comes with its own set of problems, though.
The problem with STD is you're playing in a very familiar playing field while still trying to shuffle the cards and shake things up, creating quite a mess, alienating the Trek fanbase and ultimately not accomplishing much.
Which part of the fanbase is alienated? Who gets to speak for the entire base?

Also, even a post-VOY series would alienate some portion of the base. Perhaps not as large of a portion, but there would still be complaints, still notes of being wrong, and the same gripes as now.

Also, I am highly disturbed that there is joy in a show's failure. If DSC fails that doesn't mean CBS makes a post-VOY show automatically. They must just as much shelve the property and not touch for a while. So, is no Trek better option then?

Sure, and this is my main reason to prefer TOS era show over post-Nemesis show... Except both times we have seen TOS era revisited (Kelvin films and Disco) they've introduces super tech that is even more setting breaking than the ludicrous stuff from Voyager!

The transporter cured old age in TNG.

It's a good thing Rick Berman's not the be-all and end-all of Star Trek. His version might've been, and probably would've been, but he's not in charge anymore.
Yes, but we already saw smaller versions of tech in tricorders and sleeker phasers in the TNG films. So, there is some merit to the argument.
 
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This kind of mindset is why Star Trek desperately needs a fresh vision, fresh blood, and quite frankly a bigger and new fanbase. Star Trek 2009 was really successful at laying the groundwork for this to happen, and then Paramount ruined it.

Personally, my idea for a post-Voyager series is exploring techno-pathic aliens and techno-pathic technology. We haven't had much of that in Trek yet, but there were hints that it was going to be rolled out by the 25th century.

Basically that means the ability for species to control technology with their minds. You could write some really cerebral stories on par with FX's LEGION with this kind of premise. You could explore alternate realities like something out of Nolan's Inception where the laws of physics are reimagined.

I could imagine a series villain being someone who could theoretically hack into Federation starships mentally and use them as weapons. Kind of like the enhanced version of Barclay in TNG's Ninth Degree.

star_trek_tng_4-19.jpg


It's very possible that our own brainwaves could be used to control tech during this century at the rate we are advancing. There's some great potential for commentary on the evolution of humanity with this premise.

Great idea. I said earlier that just about anyone posting here could think of a dozen good premises for a post-VOY series. There are ways to do it, and incidentally, I don't think anyone with influence actually justified ANOTHER prequel series by claiming or even thinking that supertechnology was a problem. That’s a fan-made rationalization.
 
It's a good thing Rick Berman's not the be-all and end-all of Star Trek. His version might've been, and probably would've been, but he's not in charge anymore.
I don't understand why he gets so much criticism from the fan base given his contributions. He had an amazing run.
 
Nobody gives a shit about the marketing tagline "Set 10 years after the adventures of Harry Kim and Neelix!"

Well, the timeline isn't selling Discovery because in most respects it doesn't feel like TOS and...nobody cares about the adventures of Michael Burnham, despite the grafted-on connection with Spock's family.

it just ain't going to happen anytime soon. I think the sooner we all get our heads wrapped around that cold hard fact of how the studio believes the franchise needs to be marketed, the better off we will all be.

What you don't understand is you can not run a franchise by formula like that.

It's storytelling. TELL A GOOD STORY, DAMMIT!

If you tell a good story, nobody will care about continuity or timelines. They will tune in regardless of whether they ever watched Voyager. So setting it post-Voyager doesn't necessarily alienate casual fans.
 
I don't understand why he gets so much criticism from the fan base given his contributions. He had an amazing run.

I thought he was good up to a point, on the TV end, but he was around too long and had no more ideas for going forward, which is part of why they looked back with ENT. A lot of the Star Trek made under him depended on who was working underneath him at the time.

As soon as someone says, "I have no idea what it'll be like continuing on, but it'll be probably be more like this", I think it's time for them to move on because underneath them, "more of the same" is all it ever will be. And as soon as they become resistant to someone, especially someone younger, telling them otherwise, then it's really time for them to go.

On the movie end, I think it would've been better if Paramount had gone with someone else. Someone more accustomed to making films. I don't know who that would've been who would've handled Star Trek films best in the '90s, but they had to be out there.
 
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