News Discovery New Character Breakdowns

[eschaton]

I really don't want this post to be patronising, especially in light of the argument I've just been hammering away on, but to be honest everything you are saying could literally be taken from a textbook on the experiences of people on the ASD spectrum. My son says almost exactly the same things albeit in the language of a twelve year old.

As I said, I do have some of the traits. I don't think I would fit the diagnosis for ASD however, because I don't really have any restrictive/repetitive behaviors or interests. I mean, there were some academic interests which fascinated me from a young age, like maps, prehistoric animals, language classification, etc, but I read voraciously just about everything as a child.

It completely ignores what that group may actually want to see and forces a choice on them. Even hiding it behind sympathy is disgusting and condescending. You’re telling them to shut up and let you decide for them. Do you honestly understand how demeaning it is to be told that you’re life is a problem that won’t exist in the future? You aren’t seeing them as a person with hopes and dreams, just a present day mistake. It’s also saying that Star Trek isn’t meant for us, just us. We’re perfect, don’t you want to be perfect centuries from? Because if you were there, then the future can’t be perfect.

Frankly, because I'm one of those people who is really into the concept of transhumanism, I don't find the idea of a future with people unlike me frightening. It would be damn cool if we're all just software downloaded into a global computer, or genetically modify ourselves to photosynthesize and fly or something. It doesn't really matter to me if our descendants look like me, act like me, talk like me, etc. Just so long as the memory of who we were lives on.

 

[fireproof78]

Frankly, because I'm one of those people who is really into the concept of transhumanism, I don't find the idea of a future with people unlike me frightening. It would be damn cool if we're all just software downloaded into a global computer, or genetically modify ourselves to photosynthesize and fly or something. It doesn't really matter to me if our descendants look like me, act like me, talk like me, etc. Just so long as the memory of who we were lives on.

This probably explains a lot of the missed connections and misunderstandings in this thread right now.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Frankly, because I'm one of those people who is really into the concept of transhumanism, I don't find the idea of a future with people unlike me frightening. It would be damn cool if we're all just software downloaded into a global computer, or genetically modify ourselves to photosynthesize and fly or something. It doesn't really matter to me if our descendants look like me, act like me, talk like me, etc. Just so long as the memory of who we were lives on.

I like it too, but it’s far from what Star Trek is about and nowhere near the point I was making. Star Trek is about humans and a few of us aren’t happy about being excluded from being considered humans.

 

[Refuge]

Frankly, because I'm one of those people who is really into the concept of transhumanism, I don't find the idea of a future with people unlike me frightening. It would be damn cool if we're all just software downloaded into a global computer, or genetically modify ourselves to photosynthesize and fly or something. It doesn't really matter to me if our descendants look like me, act like me, talk like me, etc. Just so long as the memory of who we were lives on.

That sounds both cool and a little... interesting

 

[DaveyNY]

The current show runners are doing a good job of showing a more diverse future than we’ve seen in past shows, I have faith they can continue to do so. The problem is the fandom, something that’s been made clear by this site on a regular basis. Honestly at times I hate to even call myself a Trek fans because of how certain other fans behave.

Well, that's a rather short sighted and averse way of looking at it.
I guess I might as well add that I hate to even call myself a Human Being, because of the way a shit-load of other folks act.

Perhaps it would be better to express the idea that People (Trek Fans and All) often tend to simply not be, Perfect...
(sometimes through no fault of their own other than being a bit too zealous with their passion)

... and strive to set a better standard, rather than pointing out ones disdain for the "less positive" examples around us.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Well, that's a rather short sighted and averse way of looking at it.
I guess I might as well add that I hate to even call myself a Human Being, because of the way a shit-load of other folks act.

Perhaps it would be better to express the idea that People (Trek Fans and All) often tend to simply not be, Perfect...
(sometimes through no fault of their own other than being a bit too zealous with their passion)

... and strive to set a better standard, rather than pointing out ones disdain for the "less positive" examples around us.

I can point out specific examples from this very site, some of it directed at me for no other reason than I exist. I know first hand how nasty some Trek fans can get and how bigoted they can be. To spare me this bullshit about being too quick to judge. The only reason I’m still here is because there’s enough good posters here that I want to stay, all who tend to post in TNZ.

 

[DaveyNY]

I can point out specific examples from this very site, some of it directed at me for no other reason than I exist. I know first hand how nasty some Trek fans can get and how bigoted they can be. To spare me this bullshit about being too quick to judge. The only reason I’m still here is because there’s enough good posters here that I want to stay, all who tend to post in TNZ.

Yes, there are many around here who can be real jackasses.
I too have been at the receiving end on several occasions.
But I wasn't attempting to disparage anyone's experiences.
I was attempting to point out that perhaps it's better to continue to set a good example, rather than spend time pointing out, or be bothered about those who don't.
There's no need to feel embarrassed by people who haven't got the poise or self control to behave themselves.
There are times when even I have to remind myself that their Ignorance, is not always my Bliss.

But that's when I think about the larger number of wonderful Trek Fans I've met through the years and console myself with the fact that they do outnumber the nitwits.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Yes, there are many around here who can be real jackasses.
I too have been at the receiving end on several occasions.
But I wasn't attempting to disparage anyone's experiences.
I was attempting to point out that perhaps it's better to continue to set a good example, rather than spend time pointing out, or be bothered about those who don't.
There's no need to feel embarrassed by people who haven't got the poise or self control to behave themselves.
There are times when even I have to remind myself that their Ignorance, is not always my Bliss.

But that's when I think about the larger number of wonderful Trek Fans I've met through the years and console myself with the fact that they do outnumber the nitwits.

The fact that I’m still here and not giving up is enough. But I refuse to pretend it doesn’t happen, if anything the good fans should do everything they can to stop those who make us look bad. I don’t like people to think that Trek fans can be bigots, but it’s shockingly common.

 

[Spot261]

Yes, there are many around here who can be real jackasses.
I too have been at the receiving end on several occasions.
But I wasn't attempting to disparage anyone's experiences.
I was attempting to point out that perhaps it's better to continue to set a good example, rather than spend time pointing out, or be bothered about those who don't.
There's no need to feel embarrassed by people who haven't got the poise or self control to behave themselves.
There are times when even I have to remind myself that their Ignorance, is not always my Bliss.

But that's when I think about the larger number of wonderful Trek Fans I've met through the years and console myself with the fact that they do outnumber the nitwits.

I just don't think we can stand by and not challenge that ignorance, especially when we know how much of an impact it has on people. YMMV but @Awesome Possum is a perfect example of someone who puts herself in the public eye here and receives stigma subtle and direct just for having the courage to be honest about who and what she is, In many ways I consider her an inspiration.

Simply standing by and letting it slide would be tantamount to being complicit, those attitudes (in my view) need to be challenged.

 

[bb-kneekey_pea]

Hey all! I'm new here, but I read a lot of stuff in this thread and have loads of thought, but can't respond to each post individually, so here's a list:
1. Representation in film/TV matters and therefore, having disabled actors play disabled characters on Star Trek is awesome.

2. "Exoskeleton" is not a treatment for ALL ailments that result in wheelchair use. There are hundreds, thousands of reasons a person might need/want to use a wheelchair, so one "cure" is not a "cure-all".

3. There are so many reasons, as I mentioned, why someone might need a wheelchair, and might not want to/be fit to use an alternative treatment, even in the Trek universe. In the same way Star Trek explores strange and never before seen possibilities of human/alien experience, so too will disability exist in strange, new, fantastic, interesting ways. Melora from DS9 was a great example of this.

4. Because of this virtually limitless possibility for disability (or alien species who interact with our space/worlds differently, like Melora), disability will ALWAYS exist. Everyone should definitely get over that. Disability is vast, unpredictable, common, and human. As much technology as Trek and our future will have, there are so much more possibilities we have yet to even deal with.

5. Eugenics is bad, wishing/assuming disabled people should be cured or even want to be is bad. Eugenics is NOT Utopian, and if Trek tries to represent a Utopian future or at least ideal, then it MUST have disability. Sorry.

6. A lot of the "cures" and technologies some of the folks in this thread discussed are just not solutions. Some of them only address particular kinds of disabilities for one thing, for another, most disabled people don't have access to ANY of these more complex treatments. You might argue that in the Trek universe, everyone DOES get access, but again, because of the above points, there will probably still need to be wheelchairs used in certain situations regardless of whether you find that interesting or not. Also, it is canon that not everyone gets access actually; consider Voyager, where they have limited resources 70 thou light years from home, or Melora, who only needs her wheelchair in certain conditions, and in those conditions it allows her to get around the ship and do her thing.

7. Data, Seven of Nine, and the Doctor can all be read as having a disability. Disability basically just means a difference that results to barriers to access, and all these characters experienced that, and Trek tech didn't just cure their issues away. So why make that case for wheelchair users? Even in Discovery, there are characters with PTSD, and that is a mental disability too that isn't just erased via technology.

8. Finally, wheelchairs are cool, and there are so many interesting possibilities Star Trek hasn't tapped for representing wheelchair users and other disabled folks????!!!! I mean we see so many diverse aliens, why not some folks who have fewer than average limbs?? I would LOVE to see a chief engineer who is a double amputee (Two arms, no legs) who climbs dextrously and easily through Jeffries tubes and small panels with beefy arms and total badassery. And like, there are just so many more possibilities, and I think Star Trek of all franchises is possibly the most exciting to tackle them. There are even cool possibilities when it comes to thinking through interesting wheelchair tech! it's an opportunity to rethink what wheelchairs or mobility devices might look like!!! Same way Star Trek gave us Ipads

Okay that's my piece, sorry for the novel, and lovely to meet you all!! I'm a newb to the forum but not to Trek I promise

 

[Refuge]

Hey all! I'm new here, but I read a lot of stuff in this thread and have loads of thought, but can't respond to each post individually, so here's a list:
1. Representation in film/TV matters and therefore, having disabled actors play disabled characters on Star Trek is awesome.

2. "Exoskeleton" is not a treatment for ALL ailments that result in wheelchair use. There are hundreds, thousands of reasons a person might need/want to use a wheelchair, so one "cure" is not a "cure-all".

3. There are so many reasons, as I mentioned, why someone might need a wheelchair, and might not want to/be fit to use an alternative treatment, even in the Trek universe. In the same way Star Trek explores strange and never before seen possibilities of human/alien experience, so too will disability exist in strange, new, fantastic, interesting ways. Melora from DS9 was a great example of this.

4. Because of this virtually limitless possibility for disability (or alien species who interact with our space/worlds differently, like Melora), disability will ALWAYS exist. Everyone should definitely get over that. Disability is vast, unpredictable, common, and human. As much technology as Trek and our future will have, there are so much more possibilities we have yet to even deal with.

5. Eugenics is bad, wishing/assuming disabled people should be cured or even want to be is bad. Eugenics is NOT Utopian, and if Trek tries to represent a Utopian future or at least ideal, then it MUST have disability. Sorry.

6. A lot of the "cures" and technologies some of the folks in this thread discussed are just not solutions. Some of them only address particular kinds of disabilities for one thing, for another, most disabled people don't have access to ANY of these more complex treatments. You might argue that in the Trek universe, everyone DOES get access, but again, because of the above points, there will probably still need to be wheelchairs used in certain situations regardless of whether you find that interesting or not. Also, it is canon that not everyone gets access actually; consider Voyager, where they have limited resources 70 thou light years from home, or Melora, who only needs her wheelchair in certain conditions, and in those conditions it allows her to get around the ship and do her thing.

7. Data, Seven of Nine, and the Doctor can all be read as having a disability. Disability basically just means a difference that results to barriers to access, and all these characters experienced that, and Trek tech didn't just cure their issues away. So why make that case for wheelchair users? Even in Discovery, there are characters with PTSD, and that is a mental disability too that isn't just erased via technology.

8. Finally, wheelchairs are cool, and there are so many interesting possibilities Star Trek hasn't tapped for representing wheelchair users and other disabled folks????!!!! I mean we see so many diverse aliens, why not some folks who have fewer than average limbs?? I would LOVE to see a chief engineer who is a double amputee (Two arms, no legs) who climbs dextrously and easily through Jeffries tubes and small panels with beefy arms and total badassery. And like, there are just so many more possibilities, and I think Star Trek of all franchises is possibly the most exciting to tackle them. There are even cool possibilities when it comes to thinking through interesting wheelchair tech! it's an opportunity to rethink what wheelchairs or mobility devices might look like!!! Same way Star Trek gave us Ipads

Okay that's my piece, sorry for the novel, and lovely to meet you all!! I'm a newb to the forum but not to Trek I promise

Hi bb, interesting read and nice to see a new face here

 

[cultcross]

Hey all! I'm new here, but I read a lot of stuff in this thread and have loads of thought, but can't respond to each post individually, so here's a list:
1. Representation in film/TV matters and therefore, having disabled actors play disabled characters on Star Trek is awesome.

2. "Exoskeleton" is not a treatment for ALL ailments that result in wheelchair use. There are hundreds, thousands of reasons a person might need/want to use a wheelchair, so one "cure" is not a "cure-all".

3. There are so many reasons, as I mentioned, why someone might need a wheelchair, and might not want to/be fit to use an alternative treatment, even in the Trek universe. In the same way Star Trek explores strange and never before seen possibilities of human/alien experience, so too will disability exist in strange, new, fantastic, interesting ways. Melora from DS9 was a great example of this.

4. Because of this virtually limitless possibility for disability (or alien species who interact with our space/worlds differently, like Melora), disability will ALWAYS exist. Everyone should definitely get over that. Disability is vast, unpredictable, common, and human. As much technology as Trek and our future will have, there are so much more possibilities we have yet to even deal with.

5. Eugenics is bad, wishing/assuming disabled people should be cured or even want to be is bad. Eugenics is NOT Utopian, and if Trek tries to represent a Utopian future or at least ideal, then it MUST have disability. Sorry.

6. A lot of the "cures" and technologies some of the folks in this thread discussed are just not solutions. Some of them only address particular kinds of disabilities for one thing, for another, most disabled people don't have access to ANY of these more complex treatments. You might argue that in the Trek universe, everyone DOES get access, but again, because of the above points, there will probably still need to be wheelchairs used in certain situations regardless of whether you find that interesting or not. Also, it is canon that not everyone gets access actually; consider Voyager, where they have limited resources 70 thou light years from home, or Melora, who only needs her wheelchair in certain conditions, and in those conditions it allows her to get around the ship and do her thing.

7. Data, Seven of Nine, and the Doctor can all be read as having a disability. Disability basically just means a difference that results to barriers to access, and all these characters experienced that, and Trek tech didn't just cure their issues away. So why make that case for wheelchair users? Even in Discovery, there are characters with PTSD, and that is a mental disability too that isn't just erased via technology.

8. Finally, wheelchairs are cool, and there are so many interesting possibilities Star Trek hasn't tapped for representing wheelchair users and other disabled folks????!!!! I mean we see so many diverse aliens, why not some folks who have fewer than average limbs?? I would LOVE to see a chief engineer who is a double amputee (Two arms, no legs) who climbs dextrously and easily through Jeffries tubes and small panels with beefy arms and total badassery. And like, there are just so many more possibilities, and I think Star Trek of all franchises is possibly the most exciting to tackle them. There are even cool possibilities when it comes to thinking through interesting wheelchair tech! it's an opportunity to rethink what wheelchairs or mobility devices might look like!!! Same way Star Trek gave us Ipads

Okay that's my piece, sorry for the novel, and lovely to meet you all!! I'm a newb to the forum but not to Trek I promise

Welcome to the board a fascinating post to start off with.

 

[fireproof78]

Hey all! I'm new here, but I read a lot of stuff in this thread and have loads of thought, but can't respond to each post individually, so here's a list:
1. Representation in film/TV matters and therefore, having disabled actors play disabled characters on Star Trek is awesome.

2. "Exoskeleton" is not a treatment for ALL ailments that result in wheelchair use. There are hundreds, thousands of reasons a person might need/want to use a wheelchair, so one "cure" is not a "cure-all".

3. There are so many reasons, as I mentioned, why someone might need a wheelchair, and might not want to/be fit to use an alternative treatment, even in the Trek universe. In the same way Star Trek explores strange and never before seen possibilities of human/alien experience, so too will disability exist in strange, new, fantastic, interesting ways. Melora from DS9 was a great example of this.

4. Because of this virtually limitless possibility for disability (or alien species who interact with our space/worlds differently, like Melora), disability will ALWAYS exist. Everyone should definitely get over that. Disability is vast, unpredictable, common, and human. As much technology as Trek and our future will have, there are so much more possibilities we have yet to even deal with.

5. Eugenics is bad, wishing/assuming disabled people should be cured or even want to be is bad. Eugenics is NOT Utopian, and if Trek tries to represent a Utopian future or at least ideal, then it MUST have disability. Sorry.

6. A lot of the "cures" and technologies some of the folks in this thread discussed are just not solutions. Some of them only address particular kinds of disabilities for one thing, for another, most disabled people don't have access to ANY of these more complex treatments. You might argue that in the Trek universe, everyone DOES get access, but again, because of the above points, there will probably still need to be wheelchairs used in certain situations regardless of whether you find that interesting or not. Also, it is canon that not everyone gets access actually; consider Voyager, where they have limited resources 70 thou light years from home, or Melora, who only needs her wheelchair in certain conditions, and in those conditions it allows her to get around the ship and do her thing.

7. Data, Seven of Nine, and the Doctor can all be read as having a disability. Disability basically just means a difference that results to barriers to access, and all these characters experienced that, and Trek tech didn't just cure their issues away. So why make that case for wheelchair users? Even in Discovery, there are characters with PTSD, and that is a mental disability too that isn't just erased via technology.

8. Finally, wheelchairs are cool, and there are so many interesting possibilities Star Trek hasn't tapped for representing wheelchair users and other disabled folks????!!!! I mean we see so many diverse aliens, why not some folks who have fewer than average limbs?? I would LOVE to see a chief engineer who is a double amputee (Two arms, no legs) who climbs dextrously and easily through Jeffries tubes and small panels with beefy arms and total badassery. And like, there are just so many more possibilities, and I think Star Trek of all franchises is possibly the most exciting to tackle them. There are even cool possibilities when it comes to thinking through interesting wheelchair tech! it's an opportunity to rethink what wheelchairs or mobility devices might look like!!! Same way Star Trek gave us Ipads

Okay that's my piece, sorry for the novel, and lovely to meet you all!! I'm a newb to the forum but not to Trek I promise

 

[fireproof78]

Sorry for double post, but I stumbled upon this quote that I found rather interesting. Yes, I know, it is referring to baldness, but it also speaks to the idea that things we might expect to be "cured" in the 24th century may be less considered than we might think:

Stewart is known for his distinctive bullet-shaped, hairless head, often a source of jokes when he joined the series in 1987. He liked to recall what Gene Roddenberry, the creator of "Star Trek," once said about Picard's character. Upon hearing a reporter remark, "Surely they would have cured baldness by the 24th century," Roddenberry countered, "In the 24th century, they wouldn't care."

Source

 

[Awesome Possum]

It’s rather funny how so many think their prejudices and biases will continue to exist in the future.

 

[Lord Garth]

It’s rather funny how so many think their prejudices and biases will continue to exist in the future.

They fear a future that doesn't look like how they want it to.

 

[Spot261]

It’s rather funny how so many think their prejudices and biases will continue to exist in the future.

The thing that saddens me though is they may possibly be right. Even Trek acknowledges implicitly how all the progress we have made by that point can be seen as simply shifting the focus, transferring our prejudices onto new targets whilst coming to accept the old ones.

Whether it's down to natural selection favouring tribalism, fear of the unknown or just general shittiness of the human race it's hard to think of a time or place where we didn't victimise or oppress someone.

In any case it's hard to imagine that a couple of hundred years would somehow wash away those millions of years of feeling collective inadequacy, willfull ignorance and insecurity which we are seeing not only out there in the real world but right here in this this thread is very much still with us.

It has, for me, frankly illustrated just how implicitly prejudiced many even within the supposedly enlightened fan base of Trek really are and how that can masquerade as so many other qualities which beg to be seen in a positive light whilst reinforcing the desire to hide away from reality.

To take a show so inherently tied into the idea of unconditional inclusiveness and argue in favour of removing that single most significant point of divergence from the drab dismal experience of the human condition because somehow it detracts from the optimism of a future defined by technology to me seems staggeringly amiss, defined by an almost preternatural capacity to miss the point on an epic scale where it allows people to self justify their prejudices.

 

[Refuge]

Prejudice is not going to go away or be reinforced if someone is shown to use an updated wheelchair.

 

[fireproof78]

Prejudice is not going to go away or be reinforced if someone is shown to use an updated wheelchair.

Then where is the harm? If the result is a zero sum game then why not err on the side of inclusion?

 

[Spot261]

Prejudice is not going to go away or be reinforced if someone is shown to use an updated wheelchair.

Nor is it going away because we show a black person. Or a female one. Or a bald one.

Doesn't mean it wasn't worth doing.