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News Discovery isn't on TV because no-one would watch it

this is the modern Golden Age of Television, and a casual perusal of television programs of such depths and intelligence as Westworld, Game of Thrones, Jessica Jones, Daredevil, The Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, House of Cards, The Crown, Downton Abby, True Detective, Mr. Robot, Orange is the New Black, Sense8, Stranger Things, BoJack Horseman, Rick and Morty, Transparent, Black Mirror, The Man in the High Castle, Homeland, Veep, The Wire, Shameless, The Affair, Outlander, etc., etc., etc., shows that the old game just isn't enough.
the fact that it discounts things like: X files, Twin Peaks, NYPD Blue, Frasier, etc etc, that were doing pretty well twenty years ago. Don't get me wrong...I am in that target demographic hunted by TV ATM, and it's nice to think that our generations TV is so superior to our parents TV...but really...it's not.
Neither the television of the 90s nor the television of today is objectively superior to anything. These are just dueling lists of favorite shows, some of which have the advantage of being widely popular, which does not prove that they are objectively good.
 
On the other hand, one of the great things about STAR TREK is that the format is flexible enough to allow for lots of different kinds of stories: morality tales, political allegories, courtroom dramas, murder mysteries, war stories, spy stories, love stories, even the occasional out-and-out farce . . . all within a single season, conceivably. It's a big tent.
All the more reason why Star Trek can cover plenty of creative ground without forgetting or denying its roots. Don't get me wrong, in nearly every practical instance of storytelling, I tend to fall on the side of those who want something new or are at least okay with something new. And I despise the attitude that the franchise's creative people should be beholden to the particulars of internet fan wishlists and the like. But I'm also not on board with the idea floating through this thread and gaining collective steam that Star Trek must completely ignore its past on principle or that any deviation from the franchise's past is a virtue in itself. There's a creative balance to be struck, in this as in all entertainment, between familiarity and novelty, between challenging audiences and pleasing them.
 
Neither the television of the 90s nor the television of today is objectively superior to anything. These are just dueling lists of favorite shows, some of which have the advantage of being widely popular, which does not prove that they are objectively good.

Sorry, but this Golden Age of Television is called that for a reason; huge numbers of television programs are objectively superior to the vast majority of what was produced in the 1990s.
 
Neither the television of the 90s nor the television of today is objectively superior to anything. These are just dueling lists of favorite shows, some of which have the advantage of being widely popular, which does not prove that they are objectively good.
There have been great TV shows made since the dawn of the medium, that's not in dispute. But the sheer number and variety of quality TV series today, the amount of competing broadcast and cable and web-based outlets producing shows, the relative ease and lowered cost for smaller production companies to produce decent quality shows, the vast pool of experienced TV staff available, the wide variety of filming locations, and the seriousness with which the industry is now taken compared to the past (TV is no longer considered the bastard stepchild to films) have all contributed to making this the Golden Age of Television. It's not a dig on 90s TV, which was great, it's just saying that things have expanded and improved even more since then. There are literally too many good shows to follow them all.
 
(I believe that) it felt like the golden age because America had a unified identity because they all watched the same programming, during the same moments, because there was so little choice.
 
That sounds great in theory, but in practice, Star Trek can't be an undefined mix of everything in the multiverse. It's like boldly going where no one has gone before. It's a great mission statement. In practice, captains choose a direction and orient themselves based on where they've been. That leaves plenty of room for discovery (sorry, pun intended). And likewise there are plenty of risks Discovery can take, plenty of fan wishlists it can ignore, and plenty of my personal expectations it can happily upend while remaining recognizably Star Trek. If not, there's no reason to call it Star Trek.
I'm not suggesting it be an undefined mix of everything. As i said, its an open format that can tell a variety of story types. In practice it has done so. It can tell a murder mystery, a romance, a light comedy or a heavy drama all in the setting of a starship travelling through space.
 
. There are literally too many good shows to follow them all.

Absolutely. I can't even keep up with all the genre shows, let alone the crime dramas and historical sagas and whatever. Tonight alone we had new episodes of FLASH, TEEN WOLF, AGENTS OF SHIELD, and GOOD BEHAVIOR, all of which I want to watch . . ..

But wait. We're only looking back as far as the nineties for comparisons? Pretty sure there was plenty of classic TV before that. :)
 
It's hard to compare older TV with modern TV. Older TV had more constraints. You couldn't put anything on TV not appropriate for kids (By contemporary standards). You couldn't put anything that would anger any political view. You couldn't put anything that would force the audience to remember prior episodes.

Within those rules, they did a pretty damn good job in the best remembered cases. It's easy to see modern TV as objectively better now because now that they're free of those constraints they can do a whole range of ambitious things with adult themes and complex serialized storylines.

One thing I prefer about the older TV that I saw is the pacing. Older TV is willing to take its damn time and have everything come together in one beautiful moment at the end of the episode. Especially Twilight Zone, but I'd say the same about Columbo and a few others. Older TV had the luxury of not having to assume half the audience would change the station if there wasn't an explosion or a sexy tease in the first few minutes.

It'd be nice if we could have a show that combined the merits of both. A show that doesn't assume all the audience has the attention span of a toddler, but is also ambitious, complex and serialized.
 
Which was daytime TV.

Different audience.

Different demographic.

Diet pills are meth.

1950s housewives, had a lot going on, before the Meth and alcoholism super charged their afternoons.

A few of the June Cleaver types were so blotto that they thunk that they were witches and genies.
 
Which was daytime TV.

Different audience.

Different demographic.

Diet pills are meth.

1950s housewives, had a lot going on, before the Meth and alcoholism super charged their afternoons.

A few of the June Cleaver types were so blotto that they thunk that they were witches and genies.
Still TV.
Those two are post June
 
I joke, but if you are on methamphetamines, your TV needs become very detail orientated, but this was merely a coincidence? It's not like the makers of Soap Operas at the time, knew that a solid fraction of their audience were functional junkies.
 
Sorry, but this Golden Age of Television is called that for a reason.
It is called the "Golden Age" by people who like the programming. It is not called the "Golden Age" by people who don't. As Mr. Spock says, "Labels are not arguments"; and what something is called is inherently subjective, not objective.
But the sheer number and variety of quality TV series today, the amount of competing broadcast and cable and web-based outlets producing shows, the relative ease and lowered cost for smaller production companies to produce decent quality shows, the vast pool of experienced TV staff available, the wide variety of filming locations, and the seriousness with which the industry is now taken compared to the past (TV is no longer considered the bastard stepchild to films) have all contributed to making this the Golden Age of Television.
In my opinion, the variety of media outlets and the ease of production has lowered the quality of television, not raised it. Television programming has increasingly become less accessible and communicative as producers with tunnel vision chase after niche markets. The niche markets love it because they're being catered to, and their love of being catered to reverberates through their echo chambers on the internet. And some TV critics love it, because some critics think everything esoteric is intellectually complex and that everything accessible is dumbed down. And the critics and niche markets are free to feel that way, but I don't have to agree with them, watch what they watch, or call it objectively better.
It's hard to compare older TV with modern TV. Older TV had more constraints. You couldn't put anything on TV not appropriate for kids (By contemporary standards). You couldn't put anything that would anger any political view. You couldn't put anything that would force the audience to remember prior episodes.
Lots of people prefer today's television because it is not constrained by standards they no longer share. Personally, I have standards that today's television blatantly violates, particularly when it comes to graphic violence. Again, these standards are subjective, as they're personally held; and any debate about the objective value of maintaining or violating standards, while legitimate, is too complex to be ajudicated by television critics.

Lots of people prefer today's television because it has become less and less episodic--more "serialized," if you like. I respect that preference, but I don't share it at all, and it's nothing but a preference. There's nothing objectively better or measurably more intelligent about stringing a story along, through a succession of years and writers, rather than finding a way to tell many self-contained stories with the same characters.
 
I'm not suggesting it be an undefined mix of everything. As i said, its an open format that can tell a variety of story types. In practice it has done so. It can tell a murder mystery, a romance, a light comedy or a heavy drama all in the setting of a starship travelling through space.
None of which I object to. My point from the beginning has only been that while Star Trek can do many things, there are some things it can't do and remain recognizably itself. I'm not even saying I know what those things are or that someone should make a list of them. I'm just saying that Star Trek should not, on principle, run away from itself entirely, just for the virtue of doing so; especially if it runs away from itself just to copy some other kind of television that happens to be popular right now.
 
especially if it runs away from itself just to copy some other kind of television that happens to be popular right now.
That's kind of how Star Trek got started. Roddenberry wanted to emulate the very popular and successful Adult Westerns of the day.
 
...especially if it runs away from itself just to copy some other kind of television that happens to be popular right now.

Being popular is how one stays on the air. Whether it be the 50's, 70's, 90's or the 2010's.
 
Sorry, but this Golden Age of Television is called that for a reason; huge numbers of television programs are objectively superior to the vast majority of what was produced in the 1990s.
And in another 20-30 years, I'm sure whatever constitutes 'TV' at that time will be considered vastly superior to the current crop of entertainment shows being produced today. It's all relative.
 
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