Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

[Tesophius]

The science of The Orville has so far been more believable (and has actually been explained) than STDs fungus drive navigated by a Tardigrade through nipple clamps.

STD reminds me of when you get a new corporate manager and to prove his worth he institutes new processes and changes existing operations just to be different from whatever was being done before. It's changes for the sake of changes. My hope is that once STD gets over this insecure phase, it'll mature and settle in into something that more closely resembles Star Trek that has been wildly popular for half a century.

 

[fireproof78]

Dick jokes? I'm sorry but space travel conducted by the use of interdimensional fungus ranks among the dumbest sci-fi ideas I have ever heard. From adults. You'd give children a pass for thinking up something like this. The Orville has its comedy, but it's doesn't expect you to buy into the concept of a spore drive. It's different to be different.

Really? TNG's thought as the basis of reality doesn't ring a bell? Magic torpedo that creates life?

Among others.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

The science of The Orville has so far been more believable (and has actually been explained) than STDs fungus drive navigated by a Tardigrade through nipple clamps.

brevity is the soul of whit. orville has kept the sci fi to the bare minimum. like i said boner jokes with a sci fi back drop. just enough to get it in and out if the way for the jokes.

i didnt like the spire drive either but it was thoroughly explained. its also imaginative though not to my liking. conceptually and story wise its a bit of a risk cause of the cheese involved.

but its at least imaginative. it isnt simply there to be a back drop. its really exploring something new. these reasons are why the two shows arent that comparable.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Magic torpedo that creates life?
.

now youre making dick jokes?

 

[fireproof78]

now youre making dick jokes?

If the thread fits...

 

[BillJ]

but its at least imaginative. it isnt simply there to be a back drop. its really exploring something new.

It was exploring Bolognium. Bolognium that Voyager's "Equinox" did a better job with.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

It was exploring Bolognium. Bolognium that Voyager's "Equinox" did a better job with.

Like it or not it is imaginative, it is something new. Star Trek is doing the Trek thing by exploring something that takes a fair bit of an imagination, and is also a "little" cerebral. This is why the shows aren't really comparable. Orville is doing comedy with a space back drop, it's a lot safer and judged by a much different standard.

It'd be like trying to compare million ways to die in the west with high plains drifter.

 

[BillJ]

Like it or not it is imaginative, it is something new. Star Trek is doing the Trek thing by exploring something that takes a fair bit of an imagination, and is also a "little" cerebral. This is why the shows aren't really comparable. Orville is doing comedy with a space back drop, it's a lot safer and judged by a much different standard.

Using a lifeform for faster propulsion, and figuring out it is wrong isn't new to Star Trek.

I suggest you go watch the "Equinox" two-parter.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

"Equinox" was just a bunch of people yelling "red alert" every 15 mins firing phasers into the air, while further exposing Janeway as a poorly thought out character after FIVE SEASONS.

Ransom: "Have you broken the Prime Directive?"
Janeway: "No. Never."

Even Kirk and Picard were honest enough to admit they broke it several times in their career. The difference with DSC is that it KNOWS what Lorca is doing is wrong and never tries to paint him as a good guy.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Using a lifeform for faster propulsion, and figuring out it is wrong isn't new to Star Trek.

I suggest you go watch the "Equinox" two-parter.

we can nitpick about every sci fi anything and find that next to none over the last 60 years was original,

however, there was no spore drive in equinox and no creature that had a map of the universe in it's brain cause of these spores were used, and no drive was used that just spit them out wherever they needed to be whenever in seconds. And the living creature wasn't being used while living to drive their ship.

You're really reducing two events to the simplest item to make them comparable but they really truly aren't.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

we can nitpick about every sci fi anything and find that next to none over the last 60 years was original,

however, there was no spore drive in equinox and no creature that had a map of the universe in it's brain cause of these spores were used, and no drive was used that just spit them out wherever they needed to be whenever in seconds. And the living creature wasn't being used while living to drive their ship.

You're really reducing two events to the simplest item to make them comparable but they really truly aren't.

I think there are similarities, but what gives DSC the edge is that it's better executed with better thought out characters. Janeway pushes things too far, but then the episode ends with a shrug because the show is too afraid to call her out when she makes questionable decisions, opting to just continue on as TNG-lite free of consequences.

 

[fireproof78]

The science of The Orville has so far been more believable (and has actually been explained) than STDs fungus drive navigated by a Tardigrade through nipple clamps.

The temporal field generator was more believable? O_o

I think there are similarities, but what gives DSC the edge is that it's better executed with better thought out characters. Janeway pushes things too far, but then the episode ends with a shrug because the show is too afraid to call her out when she makes questionable decisions, opting to just continue on as TNG-lite free of consequences.

Exactly. The newer incarnations of Trek (Kelvin, DSC) have been far more consequence driven than their predecessors in VOY and ENT. It's a bit of a different style that does't meet the "Star Trek feels" test but is a new take nonetheless.

Again, it needs time to showcase what the story is fully about rather than judging the parts without the whole picture.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

I think there are similarities, but what gives DSC the edge is that it's better executed with better thought out characters. Janeway pushes things too far, but then the episode ends with a shrug because the show is too afraid to call her out when she makes questionable decisions, opting to just continue on as TNG-lite free of consequences.

One of the dumbest episodes for me personally, Tuvix, always presented to me, the biggest oversight of the series.

The moral conundrum in that episode was severely underplayed by everyone except Tuvix himself.

it just seemed given the circumstances there were too many people too comfortable with that decision. It seemed that Voyager to me was starting to suffer from "Our characters have no boundaries because our writers want convenience" The empathetic way they paint the crew but choosing to ignore it all together sometimes was a little head scratching.

I think they established personal boundaries better with Kirk and Sisko, I didn't find too often me scratching my head at their decisions.

:: edit ::

I meant to say with PICARD and Sisko.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

The temporal field generator was more believable? O_o


Exactly. The newer incarnations of Trek (Kelvin, DSC) have been far more consequence driven than their predecessors in VOY and ENT. It's a bit of a different style that does't meet the "Star Trek feels" test but is a new take nonetheless.

Again, it needs time to showcase what the story is fully about rather than judging the parts without the whole picture.

I read a lot, of non-fiction and politics. I can't read fiction. Reading fiction requires a type of creativity and an imagination that I don't have. I think sometimes believability with science fiction requires a special skill among science fiction writers, to use the writer's imagination and the reader's imagination to create something that's "believable within the world that's been created"

As far as that same concept in TV goes, I have to a lesser degree, a similar problem.

I thought the spore drive is stupid but I give discovery props for giving it an honest shot at establishing and explaining it. I think that's where the writers here did a good job, my poor imagination aside. Orville? again an example of it was just there to be there. It really didn't mean much.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

The temporal field generator was more believable? O_o


Exactly. The newer incarnations of Trek (Kelvin, DSC) have been far more consequence driven than their predecessors in VOY and ENT. It's a bit of a different style that does't meet the "Star Trek feels" test but is a new take nonetheless.

Again, it needs time to showcase what the story is fully about rather than judging the parts without the whole picture.

I wouldn't say the same of ENT, entirely. It was in that awkward transition in the television world shifting from episodic to serialized storytelling. The first two seasons felt like an extension of VOY, but then the changes in format with 3 and 4 showed more promise, but it was too little too late as far as grabbing more viewers. Having the augment arc actually play a factor into the Klingon forehead two parter was actually a nice touch, even if I found the two parter unnecessary.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

One of the dumbest episodes for me personally, Tuvix, always presented to me, the biggest oversight of the series.

The moral conundrum in that episode was severely underplayed by everyone except Tuvix himself.

it just seemed given the circumstances there were too many people too comfortable with that decision. It seemed that Voyager to me was starting to suffer from "Our characters have no boundaries because our writers want convenience" The empathetic way they paint the crew but choosing to ignore it all together sometimes was a little head scratching.

I think they established personal boundaries better with Kirk and Sisko, I didn't find too often me scratching my head at their decisions.

:: edit ::

I meant to say with PICARD and Sisko.

This is why I love the Doctor in "Tuvix", he was the only one that stood up for that character's rights. That scene with Tuvix pleading help on the bridge and everyone just standing by with their arms crossed was such a bizarre and despicable display. Like, we're supposed to like these assholes after this?

 

[Roald]

The Spore Drive using a macro-sized water bear as a navigator is an ingenious sci-fi concept that's mostly unique and original. So sorry that some here don't see it. 'Stupid idea', they say. Same people that probably said in 1980: 'The greatest Jedi master is a green little goblin.. stupid idea!'

 

[Tesophius]

brevity is the soul of whit. orville has kept the sci fi to the bare minimum. like i said boner jokes with a sci fi back drop. just enough to get it in and out if the way for the jokes.

i didnt like the spire drive either but it was thoroughly explained. its also imaginative though not to my liking. conceptually and story wise its a bit of a risk cause of the cheese involved.

but its at least imaginative. it isnt simply there to be a back drop. its really exploring something new. these reasons are why the two shows arent that comparable.

1. Have you heard of anyone who watched Orville for the dick jokes? I sure don't.
2. Nothing was explained. There's no such thing as a mycelial galacti network. It's a fantasy concept, but a sci fi one. Quantum drive/Warp drive, on the other hand, is based on theoretical physics.

Just because you imagined something, doesn't make it imaginative. Sci fi and fantasy are not the same genre.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Oh, I've heard gripes about Luke being able to deflect blasters with his lightsaber. "Ridiculous! People don't have reflexes on par with the speed of light!"

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Have you heard of anyone who watched Orville for the dick jokes? I sure don't.

Without the humor the Orville just plain wouldn't survive.

It does not simply do the sci-fi seriously, it doesn't do much seriously.

Do you think anyone would take them bumbling around a krill ship with regular English names acting like idiots without getting caught seriously if not for the humor? No, the only reason that worked is because it was funny, else it's utterly ridiculous.

I keep saying dick jokes as a general way to describe the humor on the show, mostly cause I just like saying the words "dick jokes"

I do truly mean humor.