Discovery, a 32nd century starship.

[cultcross]

When I said "no more personal sniping over this" I did not mean "start a new thread and continue the personal sniping there".
@Angry Fanboy @Discofan stop winding each other up or infractions will follow. Neither of you need the last word, comments to PM.

If we want to discuss this topic, such as it is, let's do so civilly and focused on the content not each other.

 

[Deks]

But it's not a 'completely different ship' though is it? It's the same ship that's been upgraded.

Comparing the 2240s Enterprise with the 2360s Enterprise-D is a false equivalency - these are two distinct vessels of different classes seperated by over a hundred years.

The Discovery is a ship that's had a significant refit, much like the Motion Picture Enterprise had a significant refit but wasn't a brand new spacecraft.

Except the Spore Drive (and general look of the ship), I mean, realistically (at least from the point of Trek) everything else on it WOULD have to be brand new - the infrastructure would be replaced with 32nd century materials, every single system would be effectively replaced with new state of the art stuff.

Think of it like programmable matter literally EATING the old and putting the new (which can already technically be done with transporters and molecular fabricators in 23rd century, and transporters and replicators in the 24th century).

SF overall updated the whole design as well without affecting the total look of the ship going to the extreme to be completely unrecognizable. A few support struts/connecting corridors were removed from the inner saucer section, a more galaxy class neck was added, etc. but internally, I don't see why the overall frame wouldn't be replaced as well.
So, technically speaking, it WOULD be a brand new ship - I mean, the technology could easily do it with ridiculous speed and efficiency that it wouldn't really matter.

Looking at the turbolifts for example, the vast chasm would be enlarged with TARDIS tech (if it was incorporated) and the rails for the turbolifts would be removed (they were maglev to begin with and at the time required tracks, but with 32nd century technology, you don't need tracks at all because the maglev/antigrav checkpoints materialize with programmable matter as needed)... so you gain internal space from removing the turbolift tracks, and expand on it further with TARDIS tech (although I'm pretty sure the writers forgot about the TARDIS tech and made an error, or the SFX department made an error in general because the vast chasm exists in seasons 1 and 2).

 

[Lord Garth]

What happened with the Discovery in the third season of DSC was the opposite of what happened with the Enterprise in TMP.

The Enterprise in TMP -- The appearance is changed inside and out. Scotty says the refit and redesign took 18 months. And it looks like it. But despite the drastic change in appearance, the technology isn't really that different: it went from Mid-23rd Century to Late-23rd Century. That's it.

Starfleet doesn't change the registry number because they want to promote it as the same ship but redesigned. They want the history of the ship on proud display.

The Discovery in DSC S3 -- The appearance is exactly the same on the inside. On the outside, it got a new deflector dish, new warp nacelles, and a paint job. Looks like something that actually did only take three weeks. But the techology that was added on the inside really improved the ship's functionality: it went from 23rd Century to 32nd Century. Pretty much the same ship with some very nice modifications added to it.

Starfleet changes the registry number because they don't want to bring attention to the fact that the ship is from the past. They want the history of the ship either kept secret, or at least downplayed as much as possible, because of the controversy it might bring. And the quickest, easiest thing to do is add an "A" at the end. No fuss, no muss.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

It does seem odd that there was never another USS Discovery with the NCC-1031 registry after 2259. They usually reuse a registry and name to pay homage to a "lost" hero ship, no?

 

[Deks]

It does seem odd that there was never another USS Discovery with the NCC-1031 registry after 2259. They usually reuse a registry and name to pay homage to a "lost" hero ship, no?

Yes, but Disco's entire heroic efforts were in fact classified by Starfleet (even the Spore Drive) in order to prevent a situation like Control happening again.

 

[fireproof78]

(although I'm pretty sure the writers forgot about the TARDIS tech and made an error, or the SFX department made an error in general because the vast chasm exists in seasons 1 and 2).

Yup, a fun error.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Yes, but Disco's entire heroic efforts were in fact classified by Starfleet (even the Spore Drive) in order to prevent a situation like Control happening again.

The jumping to the future part was absolutely redacted. The ship being "lost" in battle seems to have been known.

 

[Tom]

if it was a new ship it probable would not even have turbolifts. There would be a lot of beaming everywhere. In the finale we see Vance and his security person just walking and casually beaming to do different levels like it was nothing at all.

 

[valkyrie013]

On the Registry.. So there was NO U.S.S. Discovery ( a fairly common name for a ship) in 900 years?

Don't have to have the same registry, so a NCC-345456 Discovery didn't exist in say 24th century?

 

[Discofan]

if it was a new ship it probable would not even have turbolifts. There would be a lot of beaming everywhere. In the finale we see Vance and his security person just walking and casually beaming to do different levels like it was nothing at all.

Yeah, but they take the turbolift when they need a little exercise.

 

[Deks]

The jumping to the future part was absolutely redacted. The ship being "lost" in battle seems to have been known.

Actually, 23rd century Starfleet didn't officially know Disco jumped to the future. So, at least as far as Starfleet was concerned, Discovery was lost with all hands and the Enterprise crew blamed the long range sensors detecting a quantum singularity as something that was 'unreliable/unverifiable' compared to crew's testimony... however, Starfleet is not dumb, so its likely that they knew something more happened which did in fact involve a quantum singularity (and quite possibly time travel because its highly unlikely a black hole would form out of nowhere near Xahea), but because Starfleet knew of Control and what Spock stressed was the importance of such a problem not happening again (and the subsequent battle both Disco and Enterprise endured), anything relating to Discovery (including the spore drive - that one was odd) was supposed to be classified... and then Starfleet probably chose to go along with that recommendation because of the Enterprise crew distinguished record, the fact this recommendation was the best they could get out of the crew and that they should trust the crew on this (or something to that effect - though its likely that in the 24th century, it wouldn't be as simple/easy).

 

[Deks]

On the Registry.. So there was NO U.S.S. Discovery ( a fairly common name for a ship) in 900 years?

Don't have to have the same registry, so a NCC-345456 Discovery didn't exist in say 24th century?

Some starship names are probably not re-used for varying reasons. When 23rd century SF sealed the records on Discovery under Spock's recommendation, its possible this may have included prevention of using the name Discovery itself.

 

[Deks]

if it was a new ship it probable would not even have turbolifts. There would be a lot of beaming everywhere. In the finale we see Vance and his security person just walking and casually beaming to do different levels like it was nothing at all.

Possibly, but Starfleet likes to have backups... so its possible that turbolifts still exist on 32nd century ships just in case and can be either created using programmable matter, or they are just there in the background.

 

[fireproof78]

if it was a new ship it probable would not even have turbolifts. There would be a lot of beaming everywhere. In the finale we see Vance and his security person just walking and casually beaming to do different levels like it was nothing at all.

Starfleet regs require a secondary back-up.

 

[Phoenix219]

Just think about it. If we were to refit a computer from say... ten years ago... how much of the original would we keep? I'll say just about zero. Why, because the technology has changed radically in the meantime, That's why.

I have one of these old computers in my basement, once in a great while I put it on just to see if it still works but it's completely useless.

I don't know, I have at least 6 computers that are all 10+ years old, all running Windows 7 (2 with XP), and they are all fully functioning game/emulation stations, all are functional tv downloading/viewing stations, all can access youtube and wifi, I can't think of anything that they can not do other than play high end modern games.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know, I have at least 6 computers that are all 10+ years old, all running Windows 7 (2 with XP), and they are all fully functioning game/emulation stations, all are functional tv downloading/viewing stations, all can access youtube and wifi, I can't think of anything that they can not do other than play high end modern games.

My current laptop is running Windows 7 and functions just fine, save for the occasional graphic struggle. For daily functioning its fine.

 

[ScottJ85]

Just think about it. If we were to refit a computer from say... ten years ago... how much of the original would we keep? I'll say just about zero. Why, because the technology has changed radically in the meantime, That's why.

I have one of these old computers in my basement, once in a great while I put it on just to see if it still works but it's completely useless.

Slightly off topic but there is a viable cottage industry in producing upgrades and refits for older computers that don’t necessarily bring them up to modern spec, but add a lot of modern conveniences for hobbyists, ie. wi-fi cards and USB ports for the Commodore Amiga.

Either way, I’m not particularly worried whether or not Discovery counts as a 32nd century ship or not. They couldn’t settle the Ship of Theseus debate back then, we aren’t going to settle it here. Maybe Starfleet just changed its policies on handing out registry suffixes? They don’t say it on screen anywhere and the writers have been quiet about it but that’s what I’m going with for now.

 

[Dukhat]

Starfleet changes the registry number because they don't want to bring attention to the fact that the ship is from the past. They want the history of the ship either kept secret, or at least downplayed as much as possible, because of the controversy it might bring. And the quickest, easiest thing to do is add an "A" at the end. No fuss, no muss.

I don't recall that being the reason for the suffix. And unless I missed something, I don't recall there being a stated reason at all for the change. It seemed to be purely as a tribute, nothing more (either that, or Starfleet now gives their ships a suffix after every refit, which would explain why the Tikhov-M was described as a 23rd century ship still operating in the 32nd century. I'm not saying I buy that reason, mind you, but it would explain that situation.)

I'm not sure why Starfleet would need to hide the fact that the ship came from the past, or what controversy that would bring. Or if hiding the ship as a 32nd century vessel was the reason for the suffix, why they didn't just rename the ship something else, or make the registry 1031-M.

It does seem odd that there was never another USS Discovery with the NCC-1031 registry after 2259. They usually reuse a registry and name to pay homage to a "lost" hero ship, no?

On the Registry.. So there was NO U.S.S. Discovery ( a fairly common name for a ship) in 900 years?

Don't have to have the same registry, so a NCC-345456 Discovery didn't exist in say 24th century?

A USS Discovery did exist in the 24th century, albeit its registry number is unknown:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Discovery_(24th_century)

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't recall that being the reason for the suffix. And unless I missed something, I don't recall there being a stated reason at all for the change.

They didn't give it as a reason. That was just me mentally filling in the blanks. Vance told the Discovery crew in either the fifth or sixth episode of the season (I don't remember which) that technically their presence is a crime. There were obviously extenuating circumstances but I figured he wouldn't want to call attention to it.

Maybe people who are against the ban on time travel would try to use Discovery's presence as an excuse to say "See? Time travel isn't so bad after all!" It could turn into a political thing that Vance or the President might not want.

But it could also be something else entirely. I'm not married to this rationale, it's just the one I happened to come up with for myself while watching.

 

[Dukhat]

I understand, but if Vance was that concerned, he should not have let the Discovery out of Starfleet Command. Of course, I'm thinking logically and rationally, unlike a DSC scriptwriter.