Didn't B5 plagiarized Star Trek before DS9?

[Richard Baker]

I do not think one ripped off the other- I do think though that Babylon 5 showed me the station I had hoped DS-9 would have been. DS-9 was conceived as a busy place with aliens visiting all the time, getting their ships fitted with equipment which would allow their passage through the wormhole with no harm (original story writers guide). Even without the equipment fitting, DS-9 looked empty- rarely did we see ships docked with it and few aliens wandering about- the time we saw anything like that was mostly because it was essential to the story. Babylon 5 looked like LAX in comparison.

 

[STEPhon IT]

There are only so many stories you can tell. B5 and DS9 didn't plagiarize each other. There are bound to be similarities.

Even JMS, for example, never thought that DS9's writers were sitting around going "Now what's the best way we can rip off B5 this week?" Same goes for the reverse.

Yes, but by putting the Federation into a long scale War would lead the the writers into familiar territory with Babylon 5.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

There are only so many stories you can tell. B5 and DS9 didn't plagiarize each other. There are bound to be similarities.

Even JMS, for example, never thought that DS9's writers were sitting around going "Now what's the best way we can rip off B5 this week?" Same goes for the reverse.

Yes, but by putting the Federation into a long scale War would lead the the writers into familiar territory with Babylon 5.

DS9 didn't visit any territory that B5 had any exclusive claim to, and DS9 didn't go to any territory made "familiar" by B5. B5 didn't invent war stories, and B5 didn't invent serialized war stories set in space.

 

[MacLeod]

DS9 obviously ripped off B5. Set on a space station with a continuing novelistic (or if you prefer soap operatic -entirely unlike prior Trek series) plot covering the entire breadth of the show's multi-season run, developing from small scale interactions into interstellar politics and warfare against an enemy that is unknown at the beginning.

Did B5 owe a lot to Trek? Of course, it would be virtually impossible to do space opera on TV without borrowing from it. However, I think that B5's style was very different and distinctive.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of DS9 but I still prefer it to B5 which I'd regard more as a form of torture than entertainment.

There is basically three places to set a Sci-Fi show, on a Planet, on a Starship or on a Space Station, Star Trek had already down the starship twice so it was perhaps only natural they would want to try something different.

Now as for similarites Hollywood often turns out films with broadly similar plots

Mission to Mars vs The Red Planet
United 93 vs Flight 93
White House Down vs Olympus Has Fallen
Armageddon vs Deep Impact

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_films

Why can't the same hold true for TV shows?

Oh and I enjoy both shows, sure Season 1 and 5 of B5 aren't that great but S1 is largely about universe building so we get the pay off later. As for S5 well we know the story behind that one it's just a shame the renewel didn't come earlier.

 

[Shon T'Hara]

DS9 didn't visit any territory that B5 had any exclusive claim to, and DS9 didn't go to any territory made "familiar" by B5. B5 didn't invent war stories, and B5 didn't invent serialized war stories set in space.

I don't know if it's that cut-and-dry. In the second season, B5 introduced General Hague, a high ranking military officer who was plotting to save the Earth Alliance by overthrowing its (evil) civilian government. When JMS tried to bring the character back in the third season, he found the actor was booked for a DS9 episode where he played Admiral Leyton, a high ranking military officer who was plotting to save the Federation by overthrowing the (good) civilian government.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It's like Dr. Strangelove never happened.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't know if it's that cut-and-dry. In the second season, B5 introduced General Hague, a high ranking military officer who was plotting to save the Earth Alliance by overthrowing its (evil) civilian government. When JMS tried to bring the character back in the third season, he found the actor was booked for a DS9 episode where he played Admiral Leyton, a high ranking military officer who was plotting to save the Federation by overthrowing the (good) civilian government.

And? That contradicts what I said or demonstrates plagiarism?

DS9 didn't visit any territory that B5 had any exclusive claim to, and DS9 didn't go to any territory made "familiar" by B5. B5 didn't invent war stories, and B5 didn't invent serialized war stories set in space.

 

[MacLeod]

DS9 didn't visit any territory that B5 had any exclusive claim to, and DS9 didn't go to any territory made "familiar" by B5. B5 didn't invent war stories, and B5 didn't invent serialized war stories set in space.

I don't know if it's that cut-and-dry. In the second season, B5 introduced General Hague, a high ranking military officer who was plotting to save the Earth Alliance by overthrowing its (evil) civilian government. When JMS tried to bring the character back in the third season, he found the actor was booked for a DS9 episode where he played Admiral Leyton, a high ranking military officer who was plotting to save the Federation by overthrowing the (good) civilian government.

But isn't a plot to overthrow a government a staple of film and TV? It occurs in Real Life i.e Claus Von Stauffenberg's attempt to assisinate Hitler.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

JMS' credibility went down many notches when he claimed What you leave behind was a direct rip off of the b5 finale without actually having watched it.

He said stuff like the station blew up just like in b5....i think someone was pulling his leg and he went with it.

Still...as someone who loves both shows. ...i hate it when they fight.

But DS9 would win :-p

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Did JMS really think that? Somehow I think you may have fallen victim to an urban legend. JMS is not the kind who wouldn't do his research.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

He also played the same character in Enterprise. I see it more a case of an actor being type cast.

The B5 and DS9 finales have one major thing in common, that the main protagonists join the ranks of energy beings. Thing is those are both the natural conclusion for the character.

Ronny Cox played very similar characters across a wide variety of series too. Captain Jelico, Senator Kinsey, and a whole slew of obnoxious adminstrators across a wide range of genres. That's what character actors do.

You could make an equal case that Battlestar Galactica ripped off Blade Runner because they both include robots who can pass as humans and they both feature Edward James Olmos. (And BSG directly acknowledged their influence with the 'Nothing but the rain' line).

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The B5 and DS9 finales have one major thing in common, that the main protagonists join the ranks of energy beings. Thing is those are both the natural conclusion for the character.

Same thing happens in 2001 and ST:TMP.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

@MacLeod: here, you've credited what Shon T'Hara wrote to me, and what I wrote to STEPhon IT.

@Shon T'Hara: here, you've credited I wrote to STEPhon IT.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

^ Did JMS really think that? Somehow I think you may have fallen victim to an urban legend. JMS is not the kind who wouldn't do his research.

It was reported in sfx at the time. The reason I remember it is it was before I got to see wylb myself so was annoyed at the spoiler then was confused when it didn't happen in the episode itself

Whether he was winding up the reporter or the reporter was riling him to get a story is another matter. ...

 

[Dick_Valentine]

DS9 didn't visit any territory that B5 had any exclusive claim to, and DS9 didn't go to any territory made "familiar" by B5. B5 didn't invent war stories, and B5 didn't invent serialized war stories set in space.

I don't know if it's that cut-and-dry. In the second season, B5 introduced General Hague, a high ranking military officer who was plotting to save the Earth Alliance by overthrowing its (evil) civilian government. When JMS tried to bring the character back in the third season, he found the actor was booked for a DS9 episode where he played Admiral Leyton, a high ranking military officer who was plotting to save the Federation by overthrowing the (good) civilian government.

It did lead to one of the funniest b5 outtakes though.

"Where's general Hague"

"General Hague is doing deep space nine captain. Apparently he was double booked and there's nothing to be done"

Talking of b5 ripping of trek don't forget the blatant hiring of majel Barrett playing a telepathic character

 

[CorporalCaptain]

@Dick_Valentine: In this post, you've also assigned words written by someone else to me and my words to someone else, due to broken quote tags, as described here.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

Err yeah i think everyone worked that out a while ago and I doubt anyone cares for the thread derailing to point out either.

Those who understand forum quoting will realise the links are broken and the first name is the true quoter so no big deal.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Err yeah i think everyone worked that out a while ago and I doubt anyone cares for the thread derailing to point out either.

 

[Dick_Valentine]

It's just broken code champ. ...no need for the surprised smilee

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It's just broken code champ. ...no need for the surprised smilee

It shouldn't be "thread derailing" to point out broken quotes, champ.