Poll Did You Watch "These Are the Voyages" When It Originally Aired?

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating are trying to get Joathan Frakes on their shuttlepod show and want to ask him about filming the Enterprise Tatv finale.

They got Berman to talk about it. I liked his reasonings, at the time, there was nothing malicious about it, he truly felt it was the best device to tell the beginning of the Federation with only a few weeks to write what he thought he had 3 more years to build up to. Connor Trinneer in fact loved that he, as an actor, got to end with a death scene.

 

[Sumire]

I’m surprised Connor Trinneer was pleased with that particular death scene. It strikes me as reminiscent of chief of security Tasha Yar being killed by a monster-of-the-week style alien. Starfleet’s finest engineer improvises a panicked permanent solution to a temporary problem. (I have never watched the entirety of TATV, just some reviews which included clips so I freely admit I am reflecting other people’s perceptions of said death.)

 

[fireproof78]

I’m surprised Connor Trinneer was pleased with that particular death scene. It s

Most actors appreciate acting out a death scene.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

I’m surprised Connor Trinneer was pleased with that particular death scene. It strikes me as reminiscent of chief of security Tasha Yar being killed by a monster-of-the-week style alien. Starfleet’s finest engineer improvises a panicked permanent solution to a temporary problem. (I have never watched the entirety of TATV, just some reviews which included clips so I freely admit I am reflecting other people’s perceptions of said death.)

You got it right, at least according to my take.

Most actors appreciate acting out a death scene.

Mmmwell, that being said, it was not what I would call a "good death" -- a heroic sacrifice against a formidable opponent, when all seems lost. This one was so cringeworthy and dopey, no sense of the great MacGyvering Trip did just one episode earlier to achieve his objective. No sign of the tragedy of his loss on the crew. Not even much effect on T'Pol, since they had broken up years ago apparently a few minutes after Elizabeth's funeral .

Now allow me to direct your attention to Trip's death in "Observer Effect," a far more emotionally evocative death...the leadup, the comm call between Archer and T'Pol just before, with so much emotion just under the surface, Archer putting his hand to Trip's heart and feeling him take his last breath, feeling his heart beat its last, the biobed readings dropping to zero. Just destroyed me. Hell, Hoshi's death in that episode was gripping and had my heart in my throat, and I was devastated when Archer and Phlox lost her. (Can you tell "OE" is my fave ENT ep? )

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Connor Trinneer: "...I said are we really canceled? He said yeah, we're done. I said I love it then. As long as I'm dead and you don't carry on for three more years. And in my experience, the way I explained this for me is that as an actor, it was incredibly satisfying because I got to tell the arc of a story. I got to tell the life of this guy. And being able to sort of, you know, put a button on the end of that. I've always felt with a good death scene, you know, quite grateful for."

 

[Sumire]

I suppose that is true, he did get to tell the entirety of Trip’s life, if we accept the veracity of the holoprogram. As a fan of the character, the insipidity of his death devastated me but, as the actor portraying him, I can see there is a completion to be had in playing him right to the end.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

the insipidity of his death

Major style points for the eloquent use of "insipidity" here

 

[fireproof78]

Mmmwell, that being said, it was not what I would call a "good death" -- a heroic sacrifice against a formidable opponent, when all seems lost. This one was so cringeworthy and dopey, no sense of the great MacGyvering Trip did just one episode earlier to achieve his objective. No sign of the tragedy of his loss on the crew. Not even much effect on T'Pol, since they had broken up years ago apparently a few minutes after Elizabeth's funeral .

I was speaking from a an actor's point of view. When I got to act in various productions, death scenes were among our favorite to act out.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

^^ Oh yes, agreed!

 

[DarKush]

I saw it when it came out and was largely unimpressed. I liked seeing Troi and Riker again, and hearing Data, but thought it was weird that they set it during TNG, though I think I get what B&B were aiming for in terms of Trek as a franchise. I thought Frakes and Sirtis didn't really look right in the TNG-era uniforms and felt that it was a lost opportunity to set their scenes on the Titan. It also didn't make sense to use Pegasus for this story, I don't get what lesson TATV taught Riker that changed his mind, and further, when did he have the time to do a whole holodeck program?

I also didn't think they needed to kill off Trip, but I get it because to me he was the heart of the show and he had perhaps the best character development and arc among the main cast, so if anyone had to get the ax, it made sense it would be him. I didn't despise the holodeck set up at first, but I do sympathize with the ENT cast who took issue with it. It wasn't fair that they didn't get to go out on their own steam, and had to share space with actors/characters from the more popular and successful TNG. It was a like a double slap-cancellation and then TNG shoehorning in on their series.

 

[FederationHistorian]

ENT was recorded and watch the next day in my household. Aside from briefly flipping the episode on to see Riker being in Troi’s quarters saying “What their doing is wrong. It will jeopardize the treaty” and then flip it back off, I did not watch the episode as it happened. With that little context, I wrongly assumed that Riker was referring to the NX-01 crew as doing something wrong and jeopardizing an important treaty. Which would have made sense, since the show was a prequel and they are going to make mistakes.

TATV makes much more sense if you watch “Thine Own Self” from TNG afterwards, than trying to fit it in with the TNG its based on “The Pegasus” or the rest of ENT. Considering that the chief engineers of both Enterprises die in a simulation.

 

[drt]

Connor Trinneer in fact loved that he, as an actor, got to end with a death scene.

You can tell this is the case because Trinneer is the only Enterprise actor who doesn't phone in his performance for this episode.

 

[sonak]

I saw it when it was first on. I thought it was ok and kind of a strange letdown way of wrapping up the series, but I did NOT anticipate the level of vitriol that this particular episode would inspire. It’s not even close to being among the worst episodes of the series.

 

[Anna Yolei]

I saw it when it was first on. I thought it was ok and kind of a strange letdown way of wrapping up the series, but I did NOT anticipate the level of vitriol that this particular episode would inspire. It’s not even close to being among the worst episodes of the series.

On a technical level, I suspect A Night in Sickbay would be the undisputed gold medalist of the ENT Bad Episode Olympics if not for TATV, with "Precious Cargo" as a narrow second (even Brannon Braga was embarrassed to put his name on that script!).

But as someone who was there at the time, there was just....a lot of things going on that contributed to that. Much like how Discovery is treated today, ENT had been slagged off as "fake Trek" for its entire run, with people dedicated to pissing about it every single week it aired. We were not at all quiet about how glad we all were for Coto overseeing S4 to the degree that would put the current Matalas love-in to shame.

Then the series was cancelled. Ratings were poor but from all accounts Les Moonves hated Trek and wanted to be rid of it and given UPN's network struggles, there was no way it would've lasted for a season six after the WB merger anyway. But we still started a fundraiser anyway to no avail.

And then the spoilers hit and good lord. Braga (who to his credit has since recanted because he's not entirely bankrupt creatively, unlike Berman) called it a "Valentine to the fans."

Which fans were those? The TNG fanbase who largely didn't fuck with the other shows (especially back then when we were still hating VOY pretty loudly and DS9 appreciation was muted at best)? The DS9 fans who barely got any acknowledgement even when the show was airing? The VOY fans who were still pissed about their lackluster finale that among other things stuck a last minute pairing for no other reason than a misogynistic dare?

It was certainly not for us, the underdogs who were all largely new to the franchise and who stuck by this show through thick and (very, very) thin, who loved the characters and who wanted to see THEIR story concluded. Not for yet another hour of TNG. Even the grew among us on the board who had been TNG fans saw this idea and went "bruh."

It wasn't enough to kill Trek entirely for me, but it did for a few others. I don't know if any of them have come back since Bermaga are no longer involved in any capacity but it's not for good reason Paramount pushed out "The Good That Men Do" as quickly as they did and made the rare call to declare it canon, which to my knowledge no other Trek book had been given before or since.

But the damage was very much done for many. We had a recent thread asking what happened to the OG fans and while I think ENT's cancellation between the transition from web 1.0 to 2.0 did a big number on that, this finale did it no favors to make fans WANT to add more fan media the way even the equally reviled VOY has gotten over the years.

TLDR: the hate for this episode snowballed for hella reasons, many of which had little to do with the finale itself and also possibly killed the existing fanbase at the time

 

[Sumire]

I don't know if any of them have come back since Bermaga are no longer involved in any capacity but it's not for good reason Paramount pushed out "The Good That Men Do" as quickly as they did and made the rare call to declare it canon, which to my knowledge no other Trek book had been given before or since.

Did they really?!? Once again my very late arrival puts me out of the loop but that does seem rather extraordinary.

 

[DonIago]

I'm not aware of Paramount ever declaring a novel to be canon. I'd like a source for that.

 

[ReddishAlert]

The setting/holodeck thing never bothered me and to be honest at the time I loved it. I admit TNG is always and will always be my favorite Star Trek. So maybe that’s why ‍

I also don’t mind people playing younger versions of themselves. But I just pretend. Honestly if Brent Spiner was playing plain Data today I’d be fine with that. So I’m easy in those ways.

Killing off Trip, however, was incredibly frustrating to me. Not just because of what a great character he is but because he has such amazing growth and change over the series. He’s a wonderfully complex character. If they were going to have him sacrifice himself I just wish they would have picked a more epic less silly way at least.

I also agree that it shouldn’t have been the finale. Even if it were the penultimate episode it would be better.

But I didn’t then or now hate it as some people do.

 

[Space Socialist]

I saw TATV when Sky 1 first aired it in the UK… Pretty sure it was weeks or even months after the original airing over in the States, so
I’d have been aware of the problems and controversies with the episode from online discourse before watching the episode.

I took it as “decanonising” the entire series, rather than cementing it in Trek lore as Berman and Braga seem to have envisioned it. Like writing it off as a holographic simulation which may not have ever happened within the Trek universe. Which disappointed me, as although I had issues with the series (often squandering the whole Trek prequel concept with a lack of imagination and originality), I did for the most part enjoy it, and would’ve watched further seasons had the series not ended prematurely.

 

[TJames03]

For me the series ended in the penultimate episode. “TATV….” was so astonishingly bad I can’t believe Berman and Braga didn’t do it on purpose.

 

[xman]

I watched and was very disappointed. I found it a disrespectful way of finishing. I found Frakes to be creepy (kissing a motionless Blalock) and self serving. His recent directoral exploits in Star Trek: Picard might be even worse. Insurrection was so good too.