I agree that it's easy to find humour in his performance. But his character comes in for a lot of criticism, too.
Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?
- Thread starter Ro_Laren
- Start date
I agree that it's easy to find humour in his performance. But his character comes in for a lot of criticism, too.
....Guys.....I think, perhaps, some of you are somewhat over-analyzing this.
I will say this: every time I've tried to write serious fanfic with Riker as a character, it always turns into a satire. Riker does not do well in my ST satires (neither does Kirk, for that matter). I still have fond memories of the TNG soap opera parody a friend and I wrote for our ST clubzine... poor Bill Biker and Hellana of Troi didn't fare too well.
If someone else wants to call his smile a smirk, I won't argue. He does smirk sometimes.
I think, perhaps, some of you are somewhat over-analyzing this.
In my experience, whenever someone says TNG is bland, it's usually in regards to the writing (e.g. the lack of conflict between senior staff) rather than the acting.
And sometimes he goes for the full out grin. But if anyone would like to sit down and chat by the fireside about what the smirks and the grins mean over some tea, I'll be more than happy to join in
Interesting thread.
As a kid, I always thought the way Riker seemed to not only echo Kirk in his pursuit of women, but also go further to the point where Frakes appeared to be actually channeling something akin to James Bond into the role of Riker, was all rather silly, if also funny. Every time Riker ended up alone with a woman, it was all rolled eyes and "Here we go again..."
For just two of the most gratuitous examples, there was that time when Riker seduced that very willing Irish girl - he was really channeling James Bond there, and it was utterly laughable... "You generally start at the top...and work your way down" "I think I can handle that!" *groan* Lol but seriously, it's like Frakes decided that he would channel Roger Moore's Bond that day.
And there was the time in the episode "First Contact" when an alien woman wanted to have it off with him simply because...well, we don't know why, but yeah. She claimed it was because he was an alien, which is accurate as she's from a different species, but the idea that he actually slept with her just so he could escape from the hospital (and the fact that she was virtually begging him for it) is both absurd and hilarious. He even got the parting words: "I'll call you the next time I'm passing through your star system"!
Yep, inter-spatial stud, that's for sure.
What's more, for all of Kirk's reputation as a womaniser, I think Riker was actually far more extreme in this regard. I'm pretty sure I'm correct in thinking that Riker either scored with or made out with a chick in at least one episode of every single season of TNG. Am I right? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he did.
That's interesting, I never thought of this kind of thing too much before but when I think about it now, it makes a lot of sense - Riker is the kind of character who's easy to parody and do satires with.
On that note, if you don't mind me asking, did you actually write a soap opera parody of TNG based on the Iliad? Or did you simply use those kinds of names? If it was based on the Iliad, could you please send me a link to it? I'd really like to read it - I love crossover stories, and the idea of Star Trek mixed with the Trojan War is just hilarious.
If I'm wrong and it's nothing to do with that, then don't worry.
Still sounds interesting though.
As a kid, I always thought the way Riker seemed to not only echo Kirk in his pursuit of women, but also go further to the point where Frakes appeared to be actually channeling something akin to James Bond into the role of Riker, was all rather silly, if also funny. Every time Riker ended up alone with a woman, it was all rolled eyes and "Here we go again..."
For just two of the most gratuitous examples, there was that time when Riker seduced that very willing Irish girl - he was really channeling James Bond there, and it was utterly laughable... "You generally start at the top...and work your way down" "I think I can handle that!" *groan* Lol but seriously, it's like Frakes decided that he would channel Roger Moore's Bond that day.
And there was the time in the episode "First Contact" when an alien woman wanted to have it off with him simply because...well, we don't know why, but yeah. She claimed it was because he was an alien, which is accurate as she's from a different species, but the idea that he actually slept with her just so he could escape from the hospital (and the fact that she was virtually begging him for it) is both absurd and hilarious. He even got the parting words: "I'll call you the next time I'm passing through your star system"!
Yep, inter-spatial stud, that's for sure.What's more, for all of Kirk's reputation as a womaniser, I think Riker was actually far more extreme in this regard. I'm pretty sure I'm correct in thinking that Riker either scored with or made out with a chick in at least one episode of every single season of TNG. Am I right? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he did.
I will say this: every time I've tried to write serious fanfic with Riker as a character, it always turns into a satire. Riker does not do well in my ST satires (neither does Kirk, for that matter). I still have fond memories of the TNG soap opera parody a friend and I wrote for our ST clubzine... poor Bill Biker and Hellana of Troi didn't fare too well.
That's interesting, I never thought of this kind of thing too much before but when I think about it now, it makes a lot of sense - Riker is the kind of character who's easy to parody and do satires with.
On that note, if you don't mind me asking, did you actually write a soap opera parody of TNG based on the Iliad? Or did you simply use those kinds of names? If it was based on the Iliad, could you please send me a link to it? I'd really like to read it - I love crossover stories, and the idea of Star Trek mixed with the Trojan War is just hilarious.
If I'm wrong and it's nothing to do with that, then don't worry.
Still sounds interesting though.
Alas, I have no idea if I've got any copies of this. We wrote it back in 1989-1990, long before either of us had any sort of online accesses. In fact, the first issue was done on my old Smith-Corona typewriter, and the print run was very small.I will say this: every time I've tried to write serious fanfic with Riker as a character, it always turns into a satire. Riker does not do well in my ST satires (neither does Kirk, for that matter). I still have fond memories of the TNG soap opera parody a friend and I wrote for our ST clubzine... poor Bill Biker and Hellana of Troi didn't fare too well.
That's interesting, I never thought of this kind of thing too much before but when I think about it now, it makes a lot of sense - Riker is the kind of character who's easy to parody and do satires with.
On that note, if you don't mind me asking, did you actually write a soap opera parody of TNG based on the Iliad? Or did you simply use those kinds of names? If it was based on the Iliad, could you please send me a link to it? I'd really like to read it - I love crossover stories, and the idea of Star Trek mixed with the Trojan War is just hilarious.
If I'm wrong and it's nothing to do with that, then don't worry.
To answer your question about the plot: No, it had nothing at all to do with the Iliad. We just did a takeoff on Deanna's name, and I automatically connected Troy/Troi. This pair was just a part of the overall soap opera... of course we had a romance going on between "Jaques-Nuc Jacquard" and "Dr. Beverly Smasher" (I didn't pick those names!), and naturally Westley Smasher just had to be a brat and invent a time travel device to rescue his father, Jack Smasher, because he didn't want his mom to marry the Captain! So it was a very tense love triangle in the making...
Then Christmas happened, and Info was given a present that really made him happy: this was our crossover issue, and for some inexplicable reason Narth Dater was feeling in a really good mood and rescued Yasha Tar. I don't actually recall if we had any coherent explanation why a Star Wars villain would go to the trouble of rescuing a Star Trek character and bring her back, but hey - all kinds of unlikely things happen at Christmas, right?
I do recall this part of the story came about because I had just mused about what Darth Vader would look like wearing a Santa hat...We didn't do a lot in that parody with Lieutenant Wharf. This was before a lot of the Klingon stuff started on TNG, so he didn't get much action (other than getting drunk at the senior staff Christmas party).
We actually did more with Worf in another story - a committee-written one where one person would write a few paragraphs and pass it along to someone else. The last chapter I remember of that one had Worf being stuck in a tense situation with a blob of sentient oatmeal porridge (albeit a very smart blob of porridge - it had a doctorate from Harvard, after all), the porridge's pet cat Marmalade, and no rescue in sight...
(yes, we were a very odd group of people
)Anyway, this was a long time ago, pre-internet, with a limited number of copies made of all this stuff. So I'm sorry to have to say that it's not online anywhere, and probably never will be.
But it would be an intriguing idea to do a Star Trek/Trojan War story!
Make him Paris. 
Canon suggests Riker always used rubbers, or the futuristic equivalent or at least left no mention of a forwarding address.
Unless he was shooting blanks, which would explain a lot.
Paris made a baby with B'Elanna (wasn't that out of wedlock?) , he would be a bad Trojan Man.
Unless he was shooting blanks, which would explain a lot.
Paris made a baby with B'Elanna (wasn't that out of wedlock?) , he would be a bad Trojan Man.
Tom and B'Elanna were married when she got pregnant.
Either way, it doesn't matter. Paris still made a baby, and Riker didn't. I think this extends beyond canon, I've never read anything that suggests he and Deanna have had a child. Yet. I'm sure a special writer is saving that for a special moment.
Paris could not be the Trojan Man, because he drops the reins and kicks the horse into town. Riker kicks the horse, whatever horse happens to be available, but hangs on to the reins.
Paris could not be the Trojan Man, because he drops the reins and kicks the horse into town. Riker kicks the horse, whatever horse happens to be available, but hangs on to the reins.
This topic has come up before...I believe DS9 had a reference to "injections" that the male takes....
Thanks for your reply, Timewalker.
I've already decided to do it - I'm writing a Troy/Star Trek crossover/parody! It will be broadly funny, but also with plenty of black humour and even some pathos.
Not to go any more off-topic from the original purpose of this thread than we already have done, but now that I've set out to write this story, I need a few ideas for characters - mostly because, who is everyone going to be? So far, I've come up with this list:
Jean-Luc Picard as Agamemnon
William T. Riker as Menelaus
Worf as Achilles
Deanna Troi as Helen of Troy
Disturbingly enough, my first thought for Paris was, and still is Devinoni Ral. And I have no idea who Hector could be, or any of the other Trojans, apart from the Duras family, which makes little sense, lol. Any ideas?
But just to keep this thread a little more on-topic, too:
Personally, I think Riker's habit of putting his foot on peoples' desks was a display of his authority. It's somewhat arrogant, smug, and perhaps even aggressive. But that's what his character was intended to be: TNG's answer to Kirk. Was Kirk like that? In my opinion yes, although in a good way.
Whether Riker's 'physical maneuvers' (for lack of better words)
were also like this and in a good way is up for debate. Personally, I never saw it as a bad thing, but if you remember 'Hollow Pursuits', Deanna said to Riker in that episode something along the lines of: "You are very tall. It could be intimidating to some people" - which, combined with his aforementioned habit of putting his foot on lower-ranking officers' desks, might imply that he does sometimes (or even often) throw his weight around a little too much.
I've already decided to do it - I'm writing a Troy/Star Trek crossover/parody!
It will be broadly funny, but also with plenty of black humour and even some pathos.Not to go any more off-topic from the original purpose of this thread than we already have done, but now that I've set out to write this story, I need a few ideas for characters - mostly because, who is everyone going to be? So far, I've come up with this list:
Jean-Luc Picard as Agamemnon
William T. Riker as Menelaus
Worf as Achilles
Deanna Troi as Helen of Troy
Disturbingly enough, my first thought for Paris was, and still is Devinoni Ral.
And I have no idea who Hector could be, or any of the other Trojans, apart from the Duras family, which makes little sense, lol. Any ideas?But just to keep this thread a little more on-topic, too:
Personally, I think Riker's habit of putting his foot on peoples' desks was a display of his authority. It's somewhat arrogant, smug, and perhaps even aggressive. But that's what his character was intended to be: TNG's answer to Kirk. Was Kirk like that? In my opinion yes, although in a good way.
Whether Riker's 'physical maneuvers' (for lack of better words)
were also like this and in a good way is up for debate. Personally, I never saw it as a bad thing, but if you remember 'Hollow Pursuits', Deanna said to Riker in that episode something along the lines of: "You are very tall. It could be intimidating to some people" - which, combined with his aforementioned habit of putting his foot on lower-ranking officers' desks, might imply that he does sometimes (or even often) throw his weight around a little too much.
Memory Beta said:
Besides your source disavowing it's own information, I don't count what happens in video games as remotely canon.
EDIT: OK, brought up in a Titan novel I haven't read, but still inadmissible in any court of Trek. Guess Riker did eventually put on the Daddy pants.
I look forward to reading it.Thanks for your reply, Timewalker.
I've already decided to do it - I'm writing a Troy/Star Trek crossover/parody!
I do have to make two slight corrections to my description of the soap opera parody we did, though. I'd forgotten that we actually named Wesley "Eastley Smasher," and there was a brief mention of "Kilometres O'Brien" (since Canada uses the metric system
).Guinan as Cassandra - the seeress who nobody believesNot to go any more off-topic from the original purpose of this thread than we already have done, but now that I've set out to write this story, I need a few ideas for characters - mostly because, who is everyone going to be? So far, I've come up with this list:
Jean-Luc Picard as Agamemnon
William T. Riker as Menelaus
Worf as Achilles
Deanna Troi as Helen of Troy
Disturbingly enough, my first thought for Paris was, and still is Devinoni Ral.
Ro Laren as the Amazon Queen (if you include the Amazons)
Lwaxana as one of the Goddesses - Hera, if you want to make her a serious character, or Aphrodite if you want to make her the temptress goddess who set this whole thing in motion. You also need somebody to be Athena, since Paris could also have chosen wisdom instead of love or whatever it was Hera had offered him.
Tasha might do as Andromache (Hector's wife), since she was a wife, mother, and not inclined to be submissive (at least according to the characterizations I've read in various historical novels)
You'll need characters for Hector, Paris (vain, shallow, selfish womanizer - twin brother of Cassandra - and someone with zero redeeming qualities); Patroclos (Achilles' lover); Iphigenia (the young woman sacrificed before the Greeks left to sail to Troy); Aeneas, the hero; King Priam; Queen Hecuba, etc.
Maybe Barclay would make a good Paris. He's already in love with Deanna, and he's insecure enough to be seduced by Aphrodite's offer.
At some point I'm surprised that Picard didn't ask Riker if he had trouble figuring out where the floor was, and when he did finally figure it out, he use it.
novels =/= canon
I look forward to reading it.Thanks for your reply, Timewalker.
I've already decided to do it - I'm writing a Troy/Star Trek crossover/parody!
I do have to make two slight corrections to my description of the soap opera parody we did, though. I'd forgotten that we actually named Wesley "Eastley Smasher," and there was a brief mention of "Kilometres O'Brien" (since Canada uses the metric system
That's great.
Not to go any more off-topic from the original purpose of this thread than we already have done, but now that I've set out to write this story, I need a few ideas for characters - mostly because, who is everyone going to be? So far, I've come up with this list:
Jean-Luc Picard as Agamemnon
William T. Riker as Menelaus
Worf as Achilles
Deanna Troi as Helen of Troy
Disturbingly enough, my first thought for Paris was, and still is Devinoni Ral.
Ok, thanks. I may take some of these ideas. I should warn you that for maximum comedic and dramatic value, I am actually going to base most of what I write off of the 2004 film Troy. I know, it wasn't entirely faithful to the myth, but I just want to focus mostly on the characters rather than the gods and goddesses - especially as explaining gods and goddesses in Trek isn't going to be easy lol!
Here is the new list - it sounds a bit crazy, but here it is:
Jean-Luc Picard as Agamemnon
William T. Riker as Menelaus
Worf as Achilles
Deanna Troi as Helen of Troy
Kurn as Patroclus
Gowron as Ajax
Data as Odysseus
Geordi LaForge as (?)
B’Etor as Paris (gender flipped obviously)
Beverly Crusher as Briseis
Duras as Hector
Toral as Hector’s Son
Ja’rod as King Priam
Tasha Yar as Andromache
Martok as Glaucus
(?) as Aeneas
That might sound bizarre, especially Paris being a woman in this version, but I can't seem to think of anyone to play Hector who isn't Klingon, and since I'm pretty sure Worf is going to be Achilles, it makes more sense for a Klingon to fight a Klingon in that particular battle. And so since Duras is Hector, Paris must be a sibling, and thus Paris becomes female and is B'Etor.
Crazy, I know. Not sure it will work...maybe I should have the Trojans as more human characters. Most importantly perhaps, making Ja'rod and Duras even mostly noble characters will be extremely difficult, and Duras being in wedlock with Tasha sounds ridiculous, even if funny. Maybe I should pick human or other alien characters instead.
Anyway, another on-topic add to this post:
In terms of Riker's poses and walks, does anyone think that maybe Riker has insecurity issues due to his dad? I was just thinking that this might be a good explanation for him sometimes acting a little over-macho, to the point where if he wasn't so good at doing it, it would come across as posturing and obscenely arrogant (and it does come across as somewhat arrogant, at least sometimes).
So you're setting up Paris and Helen as a lesbian couple? Not that it would actually have mattered much which one of Priam's offspring took Helen; that was only the excuse the Greek kings used for the war they wanted to fight anyway.That's great.I look forward to reading it.Thanks for your reply, Timewalker.
I've already decided to do it - I'm writing a Troy/Star Trek crossover/parody!
I do have to make two slight corrections to my description of the soap opera parody we did, though. I'd forgotten that we actually named Wesley "Eastley Smasher," and there was a brief mention of "Kilometres O'Brien" (since Canada uses the metric system
Not to go any more off-topic from the original purpose of this thread than we already have done, but now that I've set out to write this story, I need a few ideas for characters - mostly because, who is everyone going to be? So far, I've come up with this list:
Jean-Luc Picard as Agamemnon
William T. Riker as Menelaus
Worf as Achilles
Deanna Troi as Helen of Troy
Disturbingly enough, my first thought for Paris was, and still is Devinoni Ral.Ok, thanks. I may take some of these ideas. I should warn you that for maximum comedic and dramatic value, I am actually going to base most of what I write off of the 2004 film Troy. I know, it wasn't entirely faithful to the myth, but I just want to focus mostly on the characters rather than the gods and goddesses - especially as explaining gods and goddesses in Trek isn't going to be easy lol!
Here is the new list - it sounds a bit crazy, but here it is:
Jean-Luc Picard as Agamemnon
William T. Riker as Menelaus
Worf as Achilles
Deanna Troi as Helen of Troy
Kurn as Patroclus
Gowron as Ajax
Data as Odysseus
Geordi LaForge as (?)
B’Etor as Paris (gender flipped obviously)
Beverly Crusher as Briseis
Duras as Hector
Toral as Hector’s Son
Ja’rod as King Priam
Tasha Yar as Andromache
Martok as Glaucus
(?) as Aeneas
That might sound bizarre, especially Paris being a woman in this version, but I can't seem to think of anyone to play Hector who isn't Klingon, and since I'm pretty sure Worf is going to be Achilles, it makes more sense for a Klingon to fight a Klingon in that particular battle. And so since Duras is Hector, Paris must be a sibling, and thus Paris becomes female and is B'Etor.
Most importantly perhaps, making Ja'rod and Duras even mostly noble characters will be extremely difficult, and Duras being in wedlock with Tasha sounds ridiculous, even if funny. Maybe I should pick human or other alien characters instead.
Anyway, another on-topic add to this post:
In terms of Riker's poses and walks, does anyone think that maybe Riker has insecurity issues due to his dad? I was just thinking that this might be a good explanation for him sometimes acting a little over-macho, to the point where if he wasn't so good at doing it, it would come across as posturing and obscenely arrogant (and it does come across as somewhat arrogant, at least sometimes).
I have vague memories of the movie you mention. I really did try to watch it, but it was just really awful. When I think of how the characters are portrayed, it's a combination of Marion Zimmer Bradley's novel Firebrand (the Trojan War from the pov of Cassandra) and several of the novels in the Children of the Lion series by Peter Danielson.
You need someone very noble and heroic for Aeneas.
Similar threads
