Trilogy?
Dude, everybody plans on trilogies these days!
Even movies that suck out loud are produced with the hopes of two sequels.
Did \"The Cage\" happen?
- Thread starter Wesson
- Start date
Dude, everybody plans on trilogies these days!
Even movies that suck out loud are produced with the hopes of two sequels.
Right... First Contact is to blame (in my opinion) for retconning the Zephram Cochrane story... though, I guess everything retconned the events of The Cage because it still seems clear from the dialogue to me that they're talking about 'Time Warp' drive as being a pretty new invention. It was a pilot, though, and an unaired one at that, so I suppose it can be forgiven for being at variance with the rest of the show. Too bad they didn't edit that line out in The Menagerie.
Another possibility for pre-warp colonists are sleeper ships like Khan's, but time dilation could still play a role in those situations as well.
Another possibility for pre-warp colonists are sleeper ships like Khan's, but time dilation could still play a role in those situations as well.
It has not occured. It won't unless it happens after the events of this movie. Spock proved there were no paradoxes in talking to himself at the end. I don't imagine young Spock will have to travel back in time 129 years in the future just to cause these events to occur again. Nero is dead. Old Spock will die in the past not being able to predict the future, and new Spock will grow old and do whatever. So the old timeline did exist but is no longer valid. Spock could have attempted to salvage the timeline had he arrived with Nero but 25 years was too late. Unless he wants to slingshot around the sun and go back to destroy the Narada when it first arrives.
I only have one question though. I thought Kirk was Born in Iowa not on a starship. Unless the Kelvin was on its way home and the Narada caused a premature delivery, the movie screwed with the orignal timeline anyhow. Was Kirk born in Iowa in the orig timeline, like at Iowa General or something?
I only have one question though. I thought Kirk was Born in Iowa not on a starship. Unless the Kelvin was on its way home and the Narada caused a premature delivery, the movie screwed with the orignal timeline anyhow. Was Kirk born in Iowa in the orig timeline, like at Iowa General or something?
Just an opinion though!!
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With the exception of the whole "Zephram Cochrane from Alpha Centauri" thing, which is debatable, how REALLY did FC retcon Cochrane's story? In the episode "Metamorphosis," its stated Cochrane was missing for 150 years. Assuming the episode takes place in 2267, that would put his departure in the 2110s. FC takes place in 2063. One would assume that he would have invented the warp drive BEFORE he left. In any case, the timeline aspect of the story seems to be sound to me. Like it or not, FC is part of the overall story in both timelines.
There really is no reason to think that "Time Warp" might not have been some sort of a new advancement in the warp drive. There, however quite a few reasons to believe that warp drive had been around for years before "The Cage." I still consider "The Cage" part of the Prime timeline canon. It has to be, because of "The Menagerie." Ignoring it because of one line or idea is kinda ridiculous. Pike and his crew may have used slightly different terminology than the rest of Starfleet.
Well, the world implied in TOS that Cochrane came from just sort of implied to me that space colonization was already going on before warp drive, hence the ol' Alpha Centauri thing - saying he's 'from' Alpha Centauri seems to say he was born there as a second-generation colonist or at least spend his career there. FC undid that sentiment. TOS was also pretty optimistic about our near-future prospects of space travel - Khan blasting off in the 1990's in his sleeper ship, etc. If we can pretend that in the Trek world, we really did start setting off for the stars in relativistic or sleeper ships in the late 20th/early 21 century, Cochrane being a first or second generation colonist is believable, as is the idea of the stranded Talosian colonists (well, one colonist!) without Warp drive.
First Contact was a retcon to make Star Trek's timeline more like the Real World's. I kinda wish they had stuck with the original Trek timeline - it's so damn optimistic! Where are my sleeper ships?
First Contact was a retcon to make Star Trek's timeline more like the Real World's. I kinda wish they had stuck with the original Trek timeline - it's so damn optimistic! Where are my sleeper ships?
I couldn't agree more.
Yeah, he was originally born in Iowa and they do cite the battle as bringing on early labour.
X
JJ and Pine will be in Australia August 2-15 to confiscate all previous Star Trek merchandise and paraphernalia.
Resistance is...something something.
Well, the world implied in TOS that Cochrane came from just sort of implied to me that space colonization was already going on before warp drive, hence the ol' Alpha Centauri thing - saying he's 'from' Alpha Centauri seems to say he was born there as a second-generation colonist or at least spend his career there. FC undid that sentiment. TOS was also pretty optimistic about our near-future prospects of space travel - Khan blasting off in the 1990's in his sleeper ship, etc. If we can pretend that in the Trek world, we really did start setting off for the stars in relativistic or sleeper ships in the late 20th/early 21 century, Cochrane being a first or second generation colonist is believable, as is the idea of the stranded Talosian colonists (well, one colonist!) without Warp drive.
First Contact was a retcon to make Star Trek's timeline more like the Real World's. I kinda wish they had stuck with the original Trek timeline - it's so damn optimistic! Where are my sleeper ships?
heck i always assumed that space flight in trek's time even though ahead of ours for awhile was set backward when the great wars broke out during green's time and it took until cochrane's time and the discovery of human warp flight for a major recovery to happen.
as for alpha centuri he always could have moved there some time after the discovery.
i dont think he would have been comfortable with fame.
I'm splitting hairs, but I think there's actually room for debate about whether "The Cage" happened in the original timeline either. Of course "The Menagerie" happened, but did "The Cage"?
What difference does it make? Almost none, except for the very end of the story. In "The Cage," after Pike insists that the Talosians restore Vina's illusion of beauty, they also give her an illusory version of Pike to keep her company. "The Menagerie" cleverly takes that footage out of its original context and uses it to show that Pike has been given the illusion of restored health and is rejoining Vina after many years.
It's certainly possible for both endings to have happened (the Talosians gave Vina an illusory Captain Pike, then years later replaced him with the real one), but each one kind of dulls the impact of the other.
"The Menagerie" was made with the idea that no one had seen "The Cage," and no one was likely to see it, since it featured an almost entirely different cast from the show. I'm glad we have the complete original pilot to watch, but I'd argue that "The Menagerie" is actually one of Trek's earliest cases of rewriting its own history, even if only in a small way.
What difference does it make? Almost none, except for the very end of the story. In "The Cage," after Pike insists that the Talosians restore Vina's illusion of beauty, they also give her an illusory version of Pike to keep her company. "The Menagerie" cleverly takes that footage out of its original context and uses it to show that Pike has been given the illusion of restored health and is rejoining Vina after many years.
It's certainly possible for both endings to have happened (the Talosians gave Vina an illusory Captain Pike, then years later replaced him with the real one), but each one kind of dulls the impact of the other.
"The Menagerie" was made with the idea that no one had seen "The Cage," and no one was likely to see it, since it featured an almost entirely different cast from the show. I'm glad we have the complete original pilot to watch, but I'd argue that "The Menagerie" is actually one of Trek's earliest cases of rewriting its own history, even if only in a small way.
1. Exactly. "The Cage" never happened in ANY timeline. "The Cage" is not canon. The only "Star Trek" episode that Pike appeared in was "The Menagerie." "The Cage" was an unaired pilot for a series that was never produced. It is not part of the "Star Trek" canon. When you talk about canon references to Pike, use the correct title: "The Menagerie."
2. Kirk was "from" Tarsus Four, as revealed in "The Conscience of the King." In "Star Trek IV," Kirk told Gillian that he was "from" Iowa, but worked in space. In "Star Trek II," Kirk lived in an apartment in San Francisco, so he could just as easily have said he was "from" San Francisco.
In no episode did Kirk specify on which planet, or in which state, or on which starship, he was "born." Being "from" somewhere is not the same as being "born" somewhere. (Last year's U.S. presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama were "born" in Panama and Hawaii, respectively, but as Senators, they were "from" Arizona and Illinois, respectively.)
I read somewhere (sorry not sure where now) that Kirks mother went into early labour due to the attack and she was given drugs to stop the labour but they never worked.
orci said kirk was supposed to have been born on earth but the attack on the kelvin caused her to go into premature labor.
now he dosnt say this but there may have been things they could have done to delay things if they had time in sick bay but because they were on the run from the ship they didnt have the time or the means.
now he dosnt say this but there may have been things they could have done to delay things if they had time in sick bay but because they were on the run from the ship they didnt have the time or the means.
That is a 'distinction without a difference'.
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