Did \"The Cage\" happen?

[Wesson]

I tend to think it did. Only, in the new timeline, Captain Pike was commanding the Yorktown instead of the Enterprise.
A ship nearing retirement and whose crew was dispersed when Pike accepted an Academy posting as he did before, but with a happier ending this time around (so far).
Apologies if this was brought up in another post.

 

[77sevenseven]

I would say that in the new timeline it never as things were altered since the Kelvin incident. Just as Kirk never served on the Faragout. Besides as there was no Enterprise before now I don't see how.

 

[The Wormhole]

The Cage I think takes place in 2255, which coincidentally is the year in the movie that Kirk and Pike have their inspirational bar room chat.

 

[Campe]

No. And there's one explanation for that: Nero.

In the Prime Timeline, the S.S. Columbia was alone out in an unknown region of space on a survey expedition in the year 2236 and was lost crashing on the planet Talos IV with a single adult female: Vina.

In the nuTimeline, in 2233, three years prior, a starship, the U.S.S. Kelvin was destroyed by an unknown vessel, which apparently forced Starfleet to reconsider all of its plans for starship design, and one would assume recall exploration in unknown space where there could be more of these vessels waiting. Starfleet would be remiss to send a survey vessel on its own to an unexplored region of the galaxy. Its very possible that Columbia had been on its way out towards that area (assuming that the Columbia did not have the best warp drive), but the American Continent Institute was asked by Starfleet to recall all vessels due to concerns of this unknown threat. The crew of Columbia survive and there's no need for any starship to go to Talos IV.

Edit: "The Cage" takes place in 2254 in the Prime timeline.

 

[[[[MAC]]]]

And that's the evil of this movie and this new timeline.

All the nutrek lovers can say all they want that the real timeline is still there so all the stories from the real timeline still exist, but we, the viewers of the filmed adventures who have watched and love Star Trek for decades will NEVER see another story from the real timeline.

The real timeline still exists but we have all been dragged against our will into the faux timeline.

[[[MAC]]]

 

[Tulin]

Yes it did because, FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, IT ISN'T THE SAME DAMNED TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When will you noobs get this through your heads?!?

 

[FailedLurker]

And that's the evil of this movie and this new timeline.

All the nutrek lovers can say all they want that the real timeline is still there so all the stories from the real timeline still exist, but we, the viewers of the filmed adventures who have watched and love Star Trek for decades will NEVER see another story from the real timeline.

Dragged away from what exactly? All the new Trek stories based in the old timeline that were being produced before this movie was made?.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"The Cage" can still happen, of course. All it takes is the writers making it so. I wonder what it would be like with Kirk instead of Pike? Probably exactly the same. At least we'd still be able to get Spock to shout "THE WOMEN!" and all that.

Then again, it could have already happened. Not with the Enterprise of course, but as has been pointed out, Pike surely commanded other ships before that one.

And even if it's not Kirk or Pike: It could always be somebody else. If the Enterprise doesn't go to Talos IV, another ship will.

 

[Middle Earther]

And that's the evil of this movie and this new timeline.

All the nutrek lovers can say all they want that the real timeline is still there so all the stories from the real timeline still exist, but we, the viewers of the filmed adventures who have watched and love Star Trek for decades will NEVER see another story from the real timeline.

The real timeline still exists but we have all been dragged against our will into the faux timeline.

[[[MAC]]]

Ummm...the chances of you ever seeing another film or TV show were slim to none before this movie was ever made. The "real" timeline will still exist in novels, but it never would have been made into another movie after the financial failures of the last two movies and the cancellation of Enterprise. So basically - this movie and timeline or nothing. Keep in mind nothing means that even the novels would dry up eventually.

As for being 'dragged' - Did someone have a gun to your head to see this movie the first time?

 

[Squiggy]

I tend to think it did. Only, in the new timeline, Captain Pike was commanding the Yorktown instead of the Enterprise.

Then it didn't happen.

 

[I am not Spock]

My DVD of the Cage is still on the shelf. JJ didnt come round to my house and confiscate it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

the viewers of the filmed adventures who have watched and love Star Trek for decades will NEVER see another story from the real timeline.

Once JJ's trilogy is complete, Paramount may well choose to jump back to do a TNG reunion movie. Or CBS might start a new ST TV series. It doesn't have to be consistent with the timeline shown in this movie.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Trilogy?

 

[Anticitizen]

Its very possible that Columbia had been on its way out towards that area (assuming that the Columbia did not have the best warp drive), but the American Continent Institute was asked by Starfleet to recall all vessels due to concerns of this unknown threat. The crew of Columbia survive and there's no need for any starship to go to Talos IV.

Actually, the Columbia didn't have warp drive at all. That's one of the first remarks one of Pike's young officers makes to the 'colonists' - yo, check out our new ships, we have teh warp drive. Of course this doesn't mesh well with later stories of Zephram Cochrane, at least the First Contact version.

The ship crashed eighteen years before the events in The Cage took place, which was stated (in The Menagerie) to be thirteen years before the events of the episode, totaling 31 years prior to the ep. A ship without warp would've had to have left long before that date, even. And without warp, travelers probably had to rely on relativistic time dilation to make long journeys.

 

[xman]

No. And there's one explanation for that: Nero.

In the Prime Timeline, the S.S. Columbia was alone out in an unknown region of space on a survey expedition in the year 2236 and was lost crashing on the planet Talos IV with a single adult female: Vina.

In the nuTimeline, in 2233, three years prior, a starship, the U.S.S. Kelvin was destroyed by an unknown vessel, which apparently forced Starfleet to reconsider all of its plans for starship design, and one would assume recall exploration in unknown space where there could be more of these vessels waiting. Starfleet would be remiss to send a survey vessel on its own to an unexplored region of the galaxy. Its very possible that Columbia had been on its way out towards that area (assuming that the Columbia did not have the best warp drive), but the American Continent Institute was asked by Starfleet to recall all vessels due to concerns of this unknown threat. The crew of Columbia survive and there's no need for any starship to go to Talos IV.

Edit: "The Cage" takes place in 2254 in the Prime timeline.

I agree completely.

And that's the evil of this movie and this new timeline.

All the nutrek lovers can say all they want that the real timeline is still there so all the stories from the real timeline still exist, but we, the viewers of the filmed adventures who have watched and love Star Trek for decades will NEVER see another story from the real timeline.

The real timeline still exists but we have all been dragged against our will into the faux timeline.

[[[MAC]]]

Ah, but that old time line was the 'weak' time line that Q felt fine tampering with because it could never last. This new time line without time police is the 'real' time line which will stretch into the future.

My DVD of the Cage is still on the shelf. JJ didnt come round to my house and confiscate it.

And it's still fiction. That's the coolest thing!

X

 

[pookha]

Its very possible that Columbia had been on its way out towards that area (assuming that the Columbia did not have the best warp drive), but the American Continent Institute was asked by Starfleet to recall all vessels due to concerns of this unknown threat. The crew of Columbia survive and there's no need for any starship to go to Talos IV.

Actually, the Columbia didn't have warp drive at all. That's one of the first remarks one of Pike's young officers makes to the 'colonists' - yo, check out our new ships, we have teh warp drive. Of course this doesn't mesh well with later stories of Zephram Cochrane, at least the First Contact version.

The ship crashed eighteen years before the events in The Cage took place, which was stated (in The Menagerie) to be thirteen years before the events of the episode, totaling 31 years prior to the ep. A ship without warp would've had to have left long before that date, even. And without warp, travelers probably had to rely on relativistic time dilation to make long journeys.

actually they dont say warp drive at all..
in some ways it dosnt make sense..

TYLER: And you won't believe how fast you can get back. Well the time barrier's been broken. Our new ships can

and it ends there.
we dont hear the rest of it.

heck maybe columbia was a private short hop science vessel that got caught in one of the galatic oddities and it when farther out then it should have been capable of doing.

but i do find it interesting that the cage might have happened just before the meeting of kirk and pike.

pike seemed to have been renewed at the end of the cage..
he seems more determined and over what he was going through before talos four.

the whole incident with the talosians might have made pike very determined that starfleet needed more of a certain quality of captain with unexected dangers lilke that out there.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Actually, the Columbia didn't have warp drive at all. That's one of the first remarks one of Pike's young officers makes to the 'colonists' - yo, check out our new ships, we have teh warp drive.

They didn't say that...not exactly, anyway. Tyler said "The time barrier has been broken. Our new ships can..." He could have meant a lot of things, like a faster maximum warp velocity.

It seems clear that the Columbia must have had warp drive, if only because Talos IV is supposed to be very far away. And it's not a generational ship either, since Vina appears in the episode *and* was listed as one of the original crew members.

 

[Anticitizen]

Earlier, Pike ordered 'Time Warp Factor Seven', so it's pretty clear that Tyler's talking about warp, to me anyway.

Doesn't need to be a generational ship if you're relying on time dilation - accelerating at a constant velocity in normal space can get you very far in a relatively very short amount of time... but normal time passes back on Earth... so accelerating to 99.99% the speed of light will just take you slightly longer in years to take the trip than the number of light years traveled. 70 light years might take you 75 years to traverse, but only in Earth time - it could be as short as a few months from your point of view depending on how fast you're accelerating. See the thread I started in the Voyager forum about how the Voyager could get home in 1.38 years in their time if they accelerated at a steady 10 G's - only over 70,000 years would have passed on Earth. Of course, that's what slingshotting around the Sun is for

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Earlier, Pike ordered 'Time Warp Factor Seven', so it's pretty clear that Tyler's talking about warp, to me anyway.

Again: Tyler could simply have been referring to a *faster* warp velocity.

 

[Campe]

Its very possible that Columbia had been on its way out towards that area (assuming that the Columbia did not have the best warp drive), but the American Continent Institute was asked by Starfleet to recall all vessels due to concerns of this unknown threat. The crew of Columbia survive and there's no need for any starship to go to Talos IV.

Actually, the Columbia didn't have warp drive at all. That's one of the first remarks one of Pike's young officers makes to the 'colonists' - yo, check out our new ships, we have teh warp drive. Of course this doesn't mesh well with later stories of Zephram Cochrane, at least the First Contact version.

The ship crashed eighteen years before the events in The Cage took place, which was stated (in The Menagerie) to be thirteen years before the events of the episode, totaling 31 years prior to the ep. A ship without warp would've had to have left long before that date, even. And without warp, travelers probably had to rely on relativistic time dilation to make long journeys.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I can't buy that at all. Besides of Tyler's incomplete and ambiguous line (which has been quoted here), it would make little sense at all for a long range survey vessel to not at the very least have a minimal warp drive capable of at least warp 3. If the technology is there, useful and cost-effective (which I assume that a technology that had been around for 170 years would be), then there's no reason for Columbia not to be capable of warp.

If this conversation was taking place pre-First Contact, I'd be more open to this possibility, but in all honesty, one has to take the entire canon into consideration when facing a question like this and the truth is sleeper ships, relativistic time dilation and anything else of the sort would most likely be antiquated by the mid-23rd century.