Did Starfleet have a facility on Vulcan?

[JonnyQuest037]

I was thinking today about Star Trek IV, and how one of its major plot points concerns Kirk and his crew journeying back to Earth from Vulcan to stand trial with Starfleet.

Does it seem odd to anyone else that it's implied that Vulcan was giving sanctuary to the Enterprise crew? As one of the founding members of the UFP, you'd think that they'd have a Starfleet facility or two on the planet, perhaps even a branch of the Academy. Or did all 400 Vulcans who served on the Intrepid have to journey to Earth to get their commissions?

Heck, it's really odd that Starfleet didn't send an escort to Vulcan to bring the Enterprise crew and the enemy ship they captured back, unless Kirk & company decided to go back without informing Starfleet first.

What do you folks think? Did Starfleet have a facility on Vulcan that they didn't use in STIV for some reason, or was Vulcan free from a Starfleet presence? Why or why not?

 

[The Wormhole]

Vulcan almost certainly has some sort of Starfleet facilities, both planetside and in orbit. At the very least presence of at least two all-Vulcan crewed Starfleet ships would imply this.

As for Kirk and crew being given sanctuary on Vulcan, remember at the time this was before things were really fleshed out that much in the franchise at large. At the time, Meyer or Bennett or whoever likely worked under the belief that Federation worlds had a bit more independence than we later learned was the case and that a group of renegade Starfleet officers could stay on Vulcan free of Starfleet's grasp. If you want to rationalize it with what has since been added to canon, you could just say that Sarek has enough influence to keep them there under his personal protection and that's that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe it was a personal thing on Sarek's part.

The Enterprise crew were willing to sacrifice their careers (and possibly even their lives) to save Spock, so Sarek could have used his considerable clout to give them safety as long as they remained on Vulcan.

 

[GNDN18]

These are intriguing thoughts. In "Amok Time", it was Vulcan Space Central that granted the Enterprise permission to orbit and not a starbase or Federation space station. More importantly, local law allowed for lethal combat. I can't imagine the Federation would generally sanction such things.

But much as in "Wolf in the Fold", Starfleet regulations and Federation law gives way to lex loci. From that perspective, Vulcan certainly could grant sanctuary and force Starfleet to extradite under an appropriate treaty or law.

On the other hand, the crew might simply have been paroled to wait for Spock to be sufficiently recovered to travel to Earth as a necessary witness. Especially when, as noted above, Sarek had considerable influence in the Federation Council.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

At the very least presence of at least two all-Vulcan crewed Starfleet ships would imply this.

What was the other one besides the Intrepid?

 

[Timo]

The T'Kumbra from DS9. But it was also stated the Hera on which LaForge's supposedly human mom served was "mostly" crewed by Vulcans, so total segregation isn't the only way to go in either century.

I'm pretty sure that

1) yes, it was a Sarek thing, and Sarek's clout could have kept the UFP Consulate in Shi'Kahr and the Starfleet Scary Marine Corps Playfighting Garrison right next door to the mansion "ignorant" of the presence of the refugees,

2) yes, Kirk chose the time of his sailing to face trial, in agreement with Sarek who was already there, but not necessarily in agreement with anybody else, and

3) yes, some sort of escort for the fugitives would have been arranged nevertheless, whether they wished it for not, whether they reported their intent to arrive or not - unless they flew cloaked all the way, in which case Starfleet would simply blast them out of the sky when they spotted the telltale glimmer.

No doubt Starfleet representatives on Vulcan keep a very low profile in the 23rd century. Even in the 24th, they are supposedly viewed as a hated (insert Vulcan euphemism for the emotion here) occupying force, as per the story where Janeway on Vulcan has to pay double for a knickknack when revealed to work for "Them". Even arranging for overflight rights to reach the Sarek mansion might take years.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mister Spock]

There is probably a Federation embassy on Vulcan and a Starfleet presence, but the Federation would respect Vulcan's sovereign rights. The script for The Search for Spock indicates that Uhura visited Ambassador Sarek to claim political asylum on Vulcan, so presumably they were allowed to stay on Vulcan because of Sarek's personal intervention and the substantial amount of influence he has in Vulcan politics.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What was the other one besides the Intrepid?

The T'Kumbra

 

[Albertese]

I'm increasingly convinced that Starfleet IS an Earth organization, even in TNG times, not really a UFP organization. In the same sense that a modern UN peacekeeping force is usually mostly an American force.

Some points to support this idea:

--Starfleet ships are crewed by (at least) 90 % humans.

--Starfleet ships are inevitably named after Earth landmarks or Human persons, or, very rarely, aliens who happened to be important in human history.

--Starfleet ships seem to be mostly built in the Sol system (San Francisco, McKinley, Utopia Planitia). I think there's also been a ship from Deneva, but that's an Earth colony.

--Starfleet predates the UFP by at least a decade or two, as a solely Earth organization.

--On the Talos IV report Kirk is allowed to see in "The Menagerie" Spock is twice identified as "Half-Vulcan." What's his other half? Human of course! Human is the default species for a Starfleet crew member; only need to specify if it's not a human.

So I posit that Earth has a lot of widespread colonies and is the major economic presence in the UFP. Starfleet, an Earth organization, is the largest military (pseudo-military if you prefer) organization from all the UFP member worlds. The UFP makes it easy for aliens to join up if they wish, but most do not because Starfleet is generally accepted to be a Human thing from Earth. Even foreign powers accept this: Azetubur calls them out for being a Homo Sapiens only club. I say that she was right, calling the Enterprise crew out on a reality that may be politically uncomfortable. But that reality would be that in spite of lip service paid to Starfleet belonging to the whole Federation, in fact, it's really, fundamentally, all about Earth.

--Alex

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Perhaps Sarek's dwelling is considered a sanctuary and therefore nobody can just go in and get them. Starfleet respects this because they want to remain on friendly terms with Vulcan, plus they know that any attempts to seize Kirk and company will likely be thwarted by the would-be kidnap victims themselves (Kirk has a reputation for escaping sticky situations)

 

[Timo]

--Starfleet ships are crewed by (at least) 90 % humans.

The ones we see, at least, and those are extremely few, with strong observer bias. This may not be a valid point.

--Starfleet ships are inevitably named after Earth landmarks or Human persons, or, very rarely, aliens who happened to be important in human history.

I can't see a way for this not to be a valid point. We have no reason to think we see a biased selection of ships in, say, the Dominion War.

--Starfleet ships seem to be mostly built in the Sol system (San Francisco, McKinley, Utopia Planitia). I think there's also been a ship from Deneva, but that's an Earth colony.

This isn't valid - the dedication plaques for known ships are all over the place, even including a reference to Bajor of all things. And seeing Utopia Planitia in action is poor proof of no other yards existing, or even of UP being particularly significant.

--Starfleet predates the UFP by at least a decade or two, as a solely Earth organization.

But everybody has a Starfleet. It's a pretty generic name. And the UFP one doesn't seem to remember the UE one much: the number of Enterprises accepted into the UFP canon steadfastly excludes the UE one.

--On the Talos IV report Kirk is allowed to see in "The Menagerie" Spock is twice identified as "Half-Vulcan." What's his other half? Human of course! Human is the default species for a Starfleet crew member; only need to specify if it's not a human.

Or then the only thing that matters is that Spock is half-telepath.

So I posit that Earth has a lot of widespread colonies and is the major economic presence in the UFP.

Or has lots of colonies and (perhaps as the direct result) is such a poor economy that it needs to sell itself out to others. Hence the human mercenaries in charge of all the fighting, even if the richer members retain local militaries that can concentrate on keeping the respective homeworlds secure. (Earth doesn't have even that, as its ships are commanded elsewhere by those in charge.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kor]

... No doubt Starfleet representatives on Vulcan keep a very low profile in the 23rd century. Even in the 24th, they are supposedly viewed as a hated (insert Vulcan euphemism for the emotion here) occupying force, as per the story where Janeway on Vulcan has to pay double for a knickknack when revealed to work for "Them". ...

That's just a variation of the old trick of duping affluent tourists by charging them more, on the assumption that they have more money to throw around and that they don't know the local economy well enough to know any better.

Kor

 

[Timo]

Well, not - as per "The Gift", the price was doubled in front of the customers, one obvious human and one obvious Vulcan, as soon as the merchant saw their Starfleet badges. No trick there, just openly preferential treatment.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kor]

I'm increasingly convinced that Starfleet IS an Earth organization, even in TNG times, not really a UFP organization. In the same sense that a modern UN peacekeeping force is usually mostly an American force.

Some points to support this idea:

--Starfleet ships are crewed by (at least) 90 % humans.

--Starfleet ships are inevitably named after Earth landmarks or Human persons, or, very rarely, aliens who happened to be important in human history.

--Starfleet ships seem to be mostly built in the Sol system (San Francisco, McKinley, Utopia Planitia). I think there's also been a ship from Deneva, but that's an Earth colony.

--Starfleet predates the UFP by at least a decade or two, as a solely Earth organization.

--On the Talos IV report Kirk is allowed to see in "The Menagerie" Spock is twice identified as "Half-Vulcan." What's his other half? Human of course! Human is the default species for a Starfleet crew member; only need to specify if it's not a human.

So I posit that Earth has a lot of widespread colonies and is the major economic presence in the UFP. Starfleet, an Earth organization, is the largest military (pseudo-military if you prefer) organization from all the UFP member worlds. The UFP makes it easy for aliens to join up if they wish, but most do not because Starfleet is generally accepted to be a Human thing from Earth. Even foreign powers accept this: Azetubur calls them out for being a Homo Sapiens only club. I say that she was right, calling the Enterprise crew out on a reality that may be politically uncomfortable. But that reality would be that in spite of lip service paid to Starfleet belonging to the whole Federation, in fact, it's really, fundamentally, all about Earth.

--Alex

Also, in The Menagerie, the Enterprise is specifically referred to as an "Earth ship."

Kor

 

[flandry84]

Remember that Kirk and co. have in their possession a fully functional Klingon ship.Doubtless that would be of great interest to Starfleet.
I always imagined that there would have been a huge UFP presence on Vulcan,embassies,trade missions and certainly Starfleet facilities(recruitment offices,embassy security and the like).
Perhaps Kirk and his crew were under a loose type of release on his own recognisance,he was after all an interplanetary hero many times over.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Perhaps Kirk and his crew were under a loose type of release on his own recognisance,he was after all an interplanetary hero many times over.

Who'd most recently had stolen and destroyed one starship, sabotaged another, and disobeyed direct orders from Starfleet command. I think Kirk burned through any goodwill he'd accrued by that point.

 

[flandry84]

Yeah but he had also scragged the klingons who had destroyed a Starfleet science vessel and prevented the loss of Genesis to them.And disobeying direct orders is a novelty for Jim?
Disobeyingorders and still getting shit done.

I really don't like the idea that Sarek or somebody was using personal influence to protect Kirk.If Starfleet is the kind of organisation we should aspire to I would like to think they had matured past that kind of "juice" bullshit.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ What's so unusual about that? Sarek was simply using the options available to him, as a Federation ambassador, to give legal sanctuary to Kirk and crew.

The simple fact is, use of one's personal or governmental influence to secure concessions to those in need - even if it's friends and crewmates - is an absolute constant. It has always happened, and WILL always happen. It's not indicative of shady dealings or crime. It's simply the way it is.

Sarek was able to do these things for Kirk because he had the right to do them. His position as an ambassador gave him that right. Everything Sarek did was well within the law - as the Vulcan ambassador, he gave Kirk and friends asylum on Vulcan, because the law allows him to do it. End of story.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe Vulcan is uncomfortable with an official Starfleet presence on their world? So whatever presence Starfleet has, works through already established Vulcan authorities.

It makes no sense that we didn't get a "what are you doing here? you're supposed to be at Altair VI" response by whomever is in charge of Starfleet facilities on Vulcan. So I go with the idea that there is a fairly limited presence there.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah but he had also scragged the klingons who had destroyed a Starfleet science vessel and prevented the loss of Genesis to them.

The Genesis Planet was destroyed. It wouldn't take much for Starfleet to blame Kirk's interference for that.

And disobeying direct orders is a novelty for Jim?

Despite what the movies would have you believe, yes.