Did Star Trek's high quality help Lost in Space?

[Ssosmcin]

The main reason season 4 was cancelled was due to Irwin himself. The network had renewed the show for a fourth year but cut the budget right down, something that Irwin could never agree to and so he cancelled the show himself.
JB

Kind of. According to Wikipedia, which quotes from the 1992 book Lost in Space Forever":

Allen claimed the series could not continue with a reduced budget. During a negotiating conference regarding the series direction for the fourth season with CBS chief executive Bill Paley, Allen stormed out (of the meeting) when told that the budget was being cut 15% from Season Three, his action thereby sealing the show's cancellation.

In Guy Williams' final interview in Starlog, he stated that Irwin wanted to "fight the network and hand everyone a new season on a silver platter." That, of course, didn't happen. At no time, though, did Guy Williams state he was leaving the series.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The main reason season 4 was cancelled was due to Irwin himself. The network had renewed the show for a fourth year but cut the budget right down, something that Irwin could never agree to and so he cancelled the show himself.
JB

Kind of. According to Wikipedia, which quotes from the 1992 book Lost in Space Forever":

Allen claimed the series could not continue with a reduced budget. During a negotiating conference regarding the series direction for the fourth season with CBS chief executive Bill Paley, Allen stormed out (of the meeting) when told that the budget was being cut 15% from Season Three, his action thereby sealing the show's cancellation.

In Guy Williams' final interview in Starlog, he stated that Irwin wanted to "fight the network and hand everyone a new season on a silver platter." That, of course, didn't happen. At no time, though, did Guy Williams state he was leaving the series.

It's well-known that Star Trek's budget got cut for the second season, and then cut again for the third. It's so stupid that they did that. Year 3 ratings might have stayed up if not for all the compromises imposed by tight budgeting. That, the move to Friday nights (when young people went out), and some whiffy scripts did us in.

 

[Harvey]

To be fair, it wasn't the network that cut the budget for Star Trek. NBC's license fee actually went up each season. The problem was Desilu (later, Paramount), which kept slashing their portion of the costs.

And to be fair to the studio, they had little incentive to invest in the show. It was a ratings non-event at best, and an outright loser at worst. At the beginning end of each season (not to mention midseason during 1967-1968) it was always a "bubble" show. Foreign sales were nice, but it was domestic syndication where a studio hoped to pay off their deficit financing.

Of course, if Paramount had known Star Trek would become such a lucrative property in syndication (much more so than their two hits at the time, Mannix and Mission: Impossible), they might have acted differently. But I don't think anyone could have predicted what would happen in the 70s.

 

[mos6507]

For the amount of money they cut Lost in Space they spent on other Irwin Allen shows. In a way, the Irwin Allen thing kind of mirrors the Trek spinoff overload in the 90s. Too much product getting pumped out at once. In retrospect it would have been better had he focused on LiS and not branched out to Time Tunnel and Land of the Giants.

 

[Maurice]

I don't think it was Allen's divided attention that made his shows drop in quality so much as that he didn't care about the writing, he liked the spectacle, not the stories.

 

[Melakon]

Of course, if Paramount had known Star Trek would become such a lucrative property in syndication (much more so than their two hits at the time, Mannix and Mission: Impossible), they might have acted differently. But I don't think anyone could have predicted what would happen in the 70s.

It's sort of funny how 'fans' deride TOS because of the sets, costumes, and especially the effects, describing it all as "dated". Something like Mannix really looks dated.

 

[Ssosmcin]

For the amount of money they cut Lost in Space they spent on other Irwin Allen shows. In a way, the Irwin Allen thing kind of mirrors the Trek spinoff overload in the 90s. Too much product getting pumped out at once. In retrospect it would have been better had he focused on LiS and not branched out to Time Tunnel and Land of the Giants.

CBS only aired Lost in Space. All the other Irwin Allen shows of the era aired on ABC. And, frankly, no money was really being spent on Voyage. Particularly in its third season, when they relied on stock footage not only for the exterior model shots, but also for stories. A few episodes were apparently shot in three days and padded with whole scenes from previous episodes and some movies. Guest stars were mostly eliminated, even the background actors were cut down as the ships was manned by "skeleton crews" or taken away by aliens for the hour. Voyage was the ultimate "bottle show." Once The Time Tunnel was cancelled, money was pumped into Voyage and Lost in Space for new effects and the like, but neither series was a budget buster. LiS and Voyage shared set pieces, props and monster costumes to the bitter end. I'm surprised Voyage lasted as long as it did...

 

[johnnybear]

I was surprised it lasted as long too! I mean it was probably the weakest of Irwin's four shows (I'm enjoying watching it again after forty odd years) Lost being my favourite and then Time Tunnel!
JB

 

[Melakon]

"The Time Tunnel" was the only Allen show I actually liked, and that was only because of the main set and its related Forbidden Planet styled matte shots.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

And, frankly, no money was really being spent on Voyage. Particularly in its third season, when they relied on stock footage not only for the exterior model shots, but also for stories. A few episodes were apparently shot in three days and padded with whole scenes from previous episodes and some movies. Guest stars were mostly eliminated, even the background actors were cut down as the ships was manned by "skeleton crews" or taken away by aliens for the hour. Voyage was the ultimate "bottle show." Once The Time Tunnel was cancelled, money was pumped into Voyage and Lost in Space for new effects and the like, but neither series was a budget buster. LiS and Voyage shared set pieces, props and monster costumes to the bitter end.

20th Century Fox really got their money's worth out of everything that was created for the 1961 VTTBOTS movie by re-using it all for the TV version. Sets, costumes, miniatures, stock footage. Not to mention further extending the efficiency by re-using many things in Lost in Space (although, to Fox's and Irwin Allen's credit, they did not pimp out highly recognizable, "signature" miniatures across different productions, with one exception, that being a Jupiter 2 miniature that showed up in City Beneath the Sea).

In Fox's Beneath the Planet of the Apes, you can see a Jupiter 2 landing gear ladder in the wreckage of Brent's spacecraft.

MGM got a fantastic amount of re-use from Forbidden Planet materials, notably in The Twilight Zone but in a lot of other productions as well. Robby alone was in everything from Lost in Space to Columbo.

It's a mixed blessing that Star Trek began as an only child. It put more stress on the budget, obviously. The good thing is, Star Trek had its own unique props and costumes. An exception: the Talosian animal-monster head that Pike strangles was a re-use from The Outer Limits.

I can't think of any other re-uses in Star Trek, off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll kick myself later.

 

[Maurice]

^^^And the Horta, which also started on The Outer Limits.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

For the amount of money they cut Lost in Space they spent on other Irwin Allen shows. In a way, the Irwin Allen thing kind of mirrors the Trek spinoff overload in the 90s. Too much product getting pumped out at once. In retrospect it would have been better had he focused on LiS and not branched out to Time Tunnel and Land of the Giants.

Based on what I've heard, the budgets of Allen's shows were not bundled by the various production companies involved (Irwin Allen Productions, Van Bernard, Jodi Productions, Space Productions, Kent, etc.). The Paley (CBS) meeting suggests the network controlled the purse, otherwise there would be no problem for Allen to increase the LiS budget for a proposed 4th season.

 

[johnnybear]

^^^And the Horta, which also started on The Outer Limits.

I don't think it did! I know Janos Prohaska based The Horta on the creature he played in the final episode of The Outer Limits called The Probe! The Microbe costume was similar to The Horta but I don't think it was identical! But I could be wrong!
JB

 

[Melakon]

Sets, costumes, miniatures, stock footage. Not to mention further extending the efficiency by re-using many things in Lost in Space (although, to Fox's and Irwin Allen's credit, they did not pimp out highly recognizable, "signature" miniatures across different productions, with one exception, that being a Jupiter 2 miniature that showed up in City Beneath the Sea).

Didn't a reworked Flying Sub also show up in that?

^^^And the Horta, which also started on The Outer Limits.

I don't think it did! I know Janos Prohaska based The Horta on the creature he played in the final episode of The Outer Limits called The Probe! The Microbe costume was similar to The Horta but I don't think it was identical! But I could be wrong!
JB

I think it's the same costume, and Prohaska just remove the bottom fringe and repainted the whole thing. Hard to be sure, unless we have a black and white comparison of the shape. He might have been wearing the same supporting armature for both creatures.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Didn't a reworked Flying Sub also show up in that?

Not reworked. CBTS used the Flying Sub miniature "as is" which convinced some viewers that the TV movie was in the same continuity as VTTBOTS, but in the far future of 2053. A connection was never confirmed by Allen, so in the end, it was just a nice recycling job of the FS.

 

[Harvey]

For the amount of money they cut Lost in Space they spent on other Irwin Allen shows. In a way, the Irwin Allen thing kind of mirrors the Trek spinoff overload in the 90s. Too much product getting pumped out at once. In retrospect it would have been better had he focused on LiS and not branched out to Time Tunnel and Land of the Giants.

Based on what I've heard, the budgets of Allen's shows were not bundled by the various production companies involved (Irwin Allen Productions, Van Bernard, Jodi Productions, Space Productions, Kent, etc.). The Paley (CBS) meeting suggests the network controlled the purse, otherwise there would be no problem for Allen to increase the LiS budget for a proposed 4th season.

I'm not sure what production financing scheme you're suggesting regarding the budget being "bundled by the various production companies involved." Most TV of that era was deficit financed, with the network's licensing fee covering the majority of (budgeted) production costs, and the studio (in the case of Lost in Space, 20th Century Fox Television) covering the remaining percentage (off the top of my head, ~30-40% of the costs), plus any overages.

If the Paley story is accurate, what probably happened was that CBS simply threatened to cut their licensing fee for a fourth season, due to declining ratings, and Allen and Fox decided that their two options -- (a) increasing their risk to keep the budget from being slashed or (b) agreeing to the cuts and making the show for even less -- didn't make sense. They already had three seasons and 83 episodes in the can for syndication.

Just speculation here, though. I'm far from a Lost in Space expert (I believe I've seen a grand total of two or three episodes, although I am curious, perhaps against my better judgment).

 

[ZapBrannigan]

CBTS used the Flying Sub miniature "as is" which convinced some viewers that the TV movie was in the same continuity as VTTBOTS, but in the far future of 2053. A connection was never confirmed by Allen, so in the end, it was just a nice recycling job of the FS.

There's a photo I like a lot, in Starlog #39 p.10, of the FS parked next to the Jupiter II:

https://archive.org/details/starlog_magazine-039

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

1970s interviews with Allen had him saying LiS was performing well enough to warrant a 4th season--it was not in trouble. Additionally, the cast expected the series would go to a 4th season.

and Allen and Fox decided that their two options -- (a) increasing their risk to keep the budget from being slashed or (b) agreeing to the cuts and making the show for even less -- didn't make sense. They already had three seasons and 83 episodes in the can for syndication.

I've never unearthed any documents going in that direction for Allen and/or Fox. Unlike Batman producer William Dozier--who looked forward to syndication profits once the series had enough episodes--Allen appeared to want LiS to continue.

Just speculation here, though. I'm far from a Lost in Space expert (I believe I've seen a grand total of two or three episodes, although I am curious, perhaps against my better judgment).

More than LiS, Irwin Allen--no matter the quality of his TV work--was an interesting producer, and would do almost anything to see his visions turned into a reality. Strong on big concepts with a hook (probably very underrated in film/TV history), but consciously dismissive of rationality in scripts, he had the ability to hit home runs..without the power to maintain more than initial thrills.

CBTS used the Flying Sub miniature "as is" which convinced some viewers that the TV movie was in the same continuity as VTTBOTS, but in the far future of 2053. A connection was never confirmed by Allen, so in the end, it was just a nice recycling job of the FS.

There's a photo I like a lot, in Starlog #39 p.10, of the FS parked next to the Jupiter II

The one thing no one can take away from Allen: the interesting vehicle designs. Even the basic saucer gained a style all it own with the Jupiter II.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've never heard of "City Beneath the Sea" before.

 

[Harvey]

Doing some quick searching, Fox advertising materials promoting Lost in Space in the April 1, 1968 issue of Broadcasting show its NTI rating share going from 33 to 31 to 30 in the course of three seasons. Not terrible numbers, but the decline is evident.

Digging a little further, the January 18, 1968 issue of Variety shows Lost in Space a clear third place finisher in its time slot.

Neither of these things are conclusive, of course. Someone with an eye for detail should research further.

Incidentally, the account on Wikipedia, which suggests several reasons the show may have been cancelled, says it was Fox that slashed the budget for the fourth season, althoug I have no idea if that's accurate.