Did GR error in his casting concept?

[Harvey]

Thanks! It's an interesting concept but nothing I've read on the show's production or the memos I've seen mention anything like it either.

It doesn't really make sense from a contractual standpoint. Nimoy was guaranteed to be in every show, work a lot of days on each show, and receive main title billing for every show. That deal doesn't make sense if he's going to be frequently of lesser importance.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

It doesn't really make sense from a contractual standpoint. Nimoy was guaranteed to be in every show, work a lot of days on each show, and receive main title billing for every show. That deal doesn't make sense if he's going to be frequently of lesser importance.

Exactly. It's clear from the second pilot on that the show is centered around Kirk and Spock with the former being the lead character.

 

[Lance]

I could be completely wrong, but ISTR it being said in maybe "Inside Star Trek"? Or maybe in one of the old David Gerrold books?

My memory is hazy but I'm sure I saw GR or Bob Justman quoted as saying it somewhere or other.

 

[Harvey]

I could be completely wrong, but ISTR it being said in maybe "Inside Star Trek"? Or maybe in one of the old David Gerrold books?

My memory is hazy but I'm sure I saw GR or Bob Justman quoted as saying it somewhere or other.

Doesn't sound like something from Inside Star Trek. Maybe one of the Gerrold books - I haven't read all of Tribbles.

 

[Lance]

My recollection of the context wasn't that it was other regular cast 'replacing' Spock in the story -- Shatner and Nimoy were the contractual 'leads', after all -- but that Kirk and Spock may have parallel roles in some stories, with a different semi-regular being given the spotlight alongside Kirk on the landing party some weeks while Spock tended the ship (or vice versa.) But the network or others were pushing for Kirk and Spock to be side-by-side as often as possible (rightly so, I might add.) Perhaps the only glimpses we got of this 'other concept' were Galileo 7 , where Spock leads the landing party while Kirk remains shipboard; and maybe Shore Leave , where Spock joins Kirk relatively late in the episode (Kirk spending the early part of it with McCoy and, briefly, Sulu.) EDIT: And That Which Survives in season 3.

I'll have a flick through my books when I get home and see if I can find the quote.

 

[thetrellan]

The premise here is incorrect. Roddenberry originally intended TOS to be more of an anthology show. Shatner and Nimoy were the only regulars in season 1, but the rest of the ensemble was meant to be get a lot of focus, as is evident in early episodes like "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "The Man Trap." Indeed, Yeoman Rand was originally meant to be about equal in importance to McCoy; look at the early first-season end credits and DeForest Kelley and Grace Lee Whitney are credited together on the same title card. So it was meant to be Kirk first in importance, then Spock, then McCoy and Rand, then Sulu, Scott, and Uhura -- but with the goal being to spread the attention around to cover the whole ensemble. (Keep in mind that "This Side of Paradise" was originally meant to be a Sulu love story, which is why the love interest has the "exotic" name Leila Kalomi.)

But then female audiences went gaga over Spock. He became the breakout character, with Leonard Nimoy getting more fan mail than the rest of the cast combined. So the network pushed for a heavier emphasis on Spock. He was now the de facto star of the show. But Roddenberry and Shatner both intended Kirk to be the star of the show and fought to keep it that way. Eventually, Roddenberry's friend Isaac Asimov (always a smart guy) suggested that if Spock was going to be the breakout star anyway, the best way to keep Kirk central was to emphasize his friendship with Spock, to make them an inseparable team. So that was how Kirk managed to stay at the heart of the show. And McCoy also managed to stay front and center because he was also closely connected to Spock through their rivalry. And that's how the show ended up being focused on those three characters at its core. But because it was now so focused on Spock and the two men closest to him, the rest of the ensemble got marginalized more than was originally intended.

It's not uncommon for a show to start with an ensemble approach and then focus on a breakout character while the rest of the ensemble gets marginalized, often to the point of near-invisibility. There was Dr. Smith, Will, and the Robot on Lost in Space; Fonzie on Happy Days; J.J. on Good Times; Urkel on Family Matters; etc. Not to mention comic strip characters like Popeye (introduced 10 years into the run of a strip about Olive Oyl and her boyfriend Ham Gravy), Nancy (originally a supporting character in Fritzi Ritz), Snuffy Smith (supporting in Barney Google, who continued to be nominally included in the strip's title long after he'd all but vanished), Dagwood (originally just one suitor in the strip about flapper Blondie Boopadoop's life as a swinging single girl), etc. It's surprising how common this was in comic strips.

I don't see "the Corbomite Maneuver" demonstrates an emphasis on the regular cast at all. It focused on a throw away character who, in the end, was thrown away and never seen again. And the order of the first season is irrelevant, as they finished the episodes before airing and then broadcast them out of order. "The Man Trap", which gave attention to McCoy, was chosen to air first because sponsors didn't want strange and different- which they called 'too cerebral'- to air first. So they went with your typical vampire story, which it turns out was the sixth one made, not the first. But you do have a point. As the main cast was introduced, they tended to get some back story to go with it right away, as Nurse Chapel got with "What are Little Girls Made of?"

 

[Christopher]

I don't see "the Corbomite Maneuver" demonstrates an emphasis on the regular cast at all. It focused on a throw away character who, in the end, was thrown away and never seen again.

That's typical of 1960s television -- to focus on the guest stars. The ideal was to emulate the anthologies that were the gold standard of TV drama in the '50s and early '60s, so even shows with continuing characters tried for an anthology-like format, often focusing on guest stars of the week whom the core cast helped to deal with their problems. After all, guest characters could go through life-changing story arcs that main characters couldn't. The reason Gene Roddenberry pitched ST as "Wagon Train to the stars" wasn't just because he wanted to say "Western in space," as it's often assumed today. After all, there were countless Westerns on TV at the time. The reason he cited Wagon Train specifically is because it was an acclaimed drama known for its anthology-like, guest-of-the-week emphasis (its episode titles were usually in the form of "The [Guest Character Name] Story"), and he wanted ST to take a similar approach -- something that changed once Spock became the breakout star.

But you can still see a greater emphasis on the interplay among the supporting crew than you tended to get in later seasons. The banter and everyday business among Sulu, Scott, Rand, and the others is one of the highlights of the episode. They aren't just sitting around giving exposition and acknowledging orders (except for Uhura), but are chatting and joking and commenting in a way that gives them a lot of personality.

And the order of the first season is irrelevant, as they finished the episodes before airing and then broadcast them out of order.

Of course it's relevant, because I'm talking about the way the writing of the characters developed over time. Obviously the way to follow that progression is in the order the scripts were written, not the order in which they finally aired. And it's a pointless nit to pick, because I cited both "Corbomite" and "The Man Trap" as the prime examples of the kind of ensemble-focused writing I was talking about, so it works either way.

As the main cast was introduced, they tended to get some back story to go with it right away, as Nurse Chapel got with "What are Little Girls Made of?"

Except that was Chapel's second story. Her first was "The Naked Time," where she was just the random nurse going gaga over Spock. It wasn't even originally intended for the same character to appear in both episodes, but Roddenberry made them both Nurse Chapel as a way to give more screen time to his then-mistress Majel Barrett.

 

[thetrellan]

That's typical of 1960s television -- to focus on the guest stars. The ideal was to emulate the anthologies that were the gold standard of TV drama in the '50s and early '60s, so even shows with continuing characters tried for an anthology-like format, often focusing on guest stars of the week whom the core cast helped to deal with their problems. After all, guest characters could go through life-changing story arcs that main characters couldn't. The reason Gene Roddenberry pitched ST as "Wagon Train to the stars" wasn't just because he wanted to say "Western in space," as it's often assumed today. After all, there were countless Westerns on TV at the time. The reason he cited Wagon Train specifically is because it was an acclaimed drama known for its anthology-like, guest-of-the-week emphasis (its episode titles were usually in the form of "The [Guest Character Name] Story"), and he wanted ST to take a similar approach -- something that changed once Spock became the breakout star.

But you can still see a greater emphasis on the interplay among the supporting crew than you tended to get in later seasons. The banter and everyday business among Sulu, Scott, Rand, and the others is one of the highlights of the episode. They aren't just sitting around giving exposition and acknowledging orders (except for Uhura), but are chatting and joking and commenting in a way that gives them a lot of personality.




Of course it's relevant, because I'm talking about the way the writing of the characters developed over time. Obviously the way to follow that progression is in the order the scripts were written, not the order in which they finally aired. And it's a pointless nit to pick, because I cited both "Corbomite" and "The Man Trap" as the prime examples of the kind of ensemble-focused writing I was talking about, so it works either way.




Except that was Chapel's second story. Her first was "The Naked Time," where she was just the random nurse going gaga over Spock. It wasn't even originally intended for the same character to appear in both episodes, but Roddenberry made them both Nurse Chapel as a way to give more screen time to his then-mistress Majel Barrett.

So essentially you could say that once she became a regular, they gave her back story. So that being her second appearance isn't so much an exception as a distinction.

"Wagon Train to the stars" is designed to appeal to sponsors who refuse to take chances on any divergence from proven formula. That the show had a status quo to always return to, instead of evolving over time, would not even have been a question at that point. The only change that was ever allowed was when real world events meant losing an actor. And even then, what usually happened was that a different actor got cast in the same role.

When I said the production order was irrelevant, I meant it was irrelevant as far as viewer response was considered for the evolution of characters in the first season. It could affect the making of second and third seasons, though. However, the triumvirate of core characters was already established by then.

A lot of talk has been made of viewer response, but the networks only really cared about ratings because it meant more exposure for their sponsors. Having attended a TV preview event once, I can honestly say that none of the shows they played were important. All of the questionnaires had to do with the commercials. That was all they cared about. To them, a show is just a formula for selling toothpaste.

That Spock would get attention, or that the character who spent most of his time pointing out his alien nature would get significant focus, was almost a foregone conclusion in the event the show turned out to be popular. That the ship's Captain and his coldly logical alien first officer should get most of the attention. I seriously doubt that what viewers like was even considered when it came to story content. And even if it was, I doubt the right lessons were learned from it.

 

[Christopher]

So essentially you could say that once she became a regular, they gave her back story. So that being her second appearance isn't so much an exception as a distinction.

She was never a regular, just a recurring guest star. And you said "introduced." That means the first appearance, period.

When I said the production order was irrelevant, I meant it was irrelevant as far as viewer response was considered for the evolution of characters in the first season. It could affect the making of second and third seasons, though.

Not true. The series premiered between the filming dates of "Miri" and "The Conscience of the King." So more than half the first season's episodes were shot late enough that they could've been written or revised with knowledge of audience response to earlier episodes.

That Spock would get attention, or that the character who spent most of his time pointing out his alien nature would get significant focus, was almost a foregone conclusion in the event the show turned out to be popular. That the ship's Captain and his coldly logical alien first officer should get most of the attention. I seriously doubt that what viewers like was even considered when it came to story content. And even if it was, I doubt the right lessons were learned from it.

That's just not the way it happened. Spock was staggeringly popular with female viewers. He got more fan mail than the rest of the cast put together, and he was a media phenomenon for a while, more so than anything else about the show. It wasn't about the character's alien nature, it was about Leonard Nimoy's sex appeal. Except to the extent that his aloof, stoic manner made him even more desirable as a fantasy object -- the lure of the unattainable, the fantasy of being the one person who could melt his icy heart.

So, yes, what viewers like was considered. The network execs may not have paid much attention to the story content, but you can be sure they paid attention to the mountains of fan mail and press coverage that Nimoy received.

 

[T'Bonz]

It wasn't just sex appeal (or even sex appeal) with many females. Spock didn't quite fit in and that resonated with many of us, who didn't quite fit in either.

 

[Christopher]

It wasn't just sex appeal (or even sex appeal) with many females. Spock didn't quite fit in and that resonated with many of us, who didn't quite fit in either.

Yes, quite right. I shouldn't have overlooked that element, which was a primary part of his appeal to both male and female viewers. That was certainly his appeal to me as a kid, as a kindred spirit and role model.

 

[thetrellan]

She was never a regular, just a recurring guest star. And you said "introduced." That means the first appearance, period.





Not true. The series premiered between the filming dates of "Miri" and "The Conscience of the King." So more than half the first season's episodes were shot late enough that they could've been written or revised with knowledge of audience response to earlier episodes.




That's just not the way it happened. Spock was staggeringly popular with female viewers. He got more fan mail than the rest of the cast put together, and he was a media phenomenon for a while, more so than anything else about the show. It wasn't about the character's alien nature, it was about Leonard Nimoy's sex appeal. Except to the extent that his aloof, stoic manner made him even more desirable as a fantasy object -- the lure of the unattainable, the fantasy of being the one person who could melt his icy heart.

So, yes, what viewers like was considered. The network execs may not have paid much attention to the story content, but you can be sure they paid attention to the mountains of fan mail and press coverage that Nimoy received.

Interesting. That goes a long way to explaining Shatner's obsession with counting lines then. Must have been a pretty sore point.