Fuck the Ba'ku
Did anyone really care about the Ba'ku?
- Thread starter c0rnedfr0g
- Start date
No, no they didn't. Considering they were not living there.
Siwilliams
Fleet Captain
go to hell
But they were born there. And raised there. Unlike their parents, who immigrated there, the Son'a were 'natural born citizens' of that planet. I'd argue that they had more claim to the planet.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Picard is a hypocrite. He's not above using bullying tactics himself when it comes worlds claimed by the Federation. (See my favorite, "Up the Long Ladder")
The Baku, they should've put up the universe's most awesome orbital defense system before they became luddites. Seriously, they were eventually going to be at somebody's mercy.
The whole paradise theme has been beaten to death in Trek. Strangely, it was often rejected as something humanity wasn't meant for or it was revealed to be empty or stagnant. Yet, here is it "real", in a fashion, so we have the trite, luddite heaven pushed as virtuous and wonderful, as opposed to say "This Side of Paradise". Just two movies before...the NEXUS was ideal paradise, but NOT real...therefore rejectable. Sha'ka'ri was a fool's promise made by a trapped evil entity. The Genesis Project turned out to be a failed experiment that was more useful as a weapon than a world-builder.
I cry foul at the whole movie. It props the Son'a as utter villains...they make drugs, they conquered other races...very black and white. Oh, yeah, Ad'har Rua'fo's first mate has a change of heart. "All those years of evil doing, but just seeing Donna Murphy's perpetually perky tits got me thinking...'maybe I wuz wrong?'"
The Baku, they should've put up the universe's most awesome orbital defense system before they became luddites. Seriously, they were eventually going to be at somebody's mercy.
The whole paradise theme has been beaten to death in Trek. Strangely, it was often rejected as something humanity wasn't meant for or it was revealed to be empty or stagnant. Yet, here is it "real", in a fashion, so we have the trite, luddite heaven pushed as virtuous and wonderful, as opposed to say "This Side of Paradise". Just two movies before...the NEXUS was ideal paradise, but NOT real...therefore rejectable. Sha'ka'ri was a fool's promise made by a trapped evil entity. The Genesis Project turned out to be a failed experiment that was more useful as a weapon than a world-builder.
I cry foul at the whole movie. It props the Son'a as utter villains...they make drugs, they conquered other races...very black and white. Oh, yeah, Ad'har Rua'fo's first mate has a change of heart. "All those years of evil doing, but just seeing Donna Murphy's perpetually perky tits got me thinking...'maybe I wuz wrong?'"
Both of you knock it off.
The Ba'ku came off as snobbish, boring and spoiled. Their backstory was full of holes (how and why could they have exiled the Son'a from the entire planet?), but as the story presented them, they were still clearly in the right. Governments shouldn't be allowed to come along and kick people out of their homes, "greater good" or not.
Yes, they did little to protect their claims, but for a civilized society, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Might doesn't always make right. Or whatever other cliche you like.
Yes, they did little to protect their claims, but for a civilized society, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Might doesn't always make right. Or whatever other cliche you like.
But that's just bullshit. Surely governments (aka "the people") should have the right to manage their lands for common good regardless of the selfish wants of individual citizens or groups. If not, then why have governments in the first place? Just buy a few rifles and generators and barbed wire and a self-installable nuclear shelter, drill your own well, and fortify against thy neighbor. And shoot his kids as a preemptive measure, lest they come and take your precious land.
Timo Saloniemi
Sure. Just as long as the lands in question actually belong to "the people" rather than those individual citizens or groups.
these people exist outside of government. They had their own form of "non-government" government before the UFP's government
They didn't captivate me because at this point they were just 'aliens of the week' - not enough time was really put into making the audience want to care, the movie really more so presented itself as a story about the crew questioning what was right then it was a movie about the aliens.. so for me the focus was on the Enterprise crew, and the aliens really didn't matter much at all.
And governments today tolerate such things to a certain degree. When the going gets tough, though, the hippie or survivalist way of life has to go, and the enclave has to yield to the common rule.
Whether one would treat an enclave of 600 colonists that way, or with the dignity afforded a truly independent nation, is an interesting question - but at some point, the enclave becomes small and insignificant enough that it simply cannot be considered as worthy of self-rule. On Earth today, that would happen on much larger communities than 600-people villages already: the one-man self-declared "independent kingdoms" that litter the modern political map aren't for real, but would be ignored were any real political, legal or economic issue to come to involve them.
In the particular case of the movie, we also have to consider that the Federation consistently treats those societies that lack interstellar contact as having significantly less political power than those that are in contact. And naturally so, since one can't have much influence if one doesn't speak out, and doesn't even know there's somebody out there to speak to. The Federation has always believed that such isolated groups should be treated as less than full citizens for their own good - much like we treat the underaged today. So whatever independent government or legal system they might have, it wouldn't be dignified with UFP recognition until the Feds actually made contact. Until then, it would be "We formally own those folks even though they don't know it, for their protection".
Whether that latter policy is defensible by today's morals, or the Trek 24th century ones, is quite another debate.
Timo Saloniemi
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