ST-One
Vice Admiral
Yes, I did.
Did anyone momentarily think... (end of film spoilers)
- Thread starter BorgPhil
- Start date
Yes, I did.
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
I think the reason why so many of us would think something like a reset was going to happen is because the movie inroduced some sort of weird danger after the bad guy had been destroyed. It felt like they were going to stick something more on....but they didn't
ST-One
Vice Admiral
And I'm glad they didn't.
But that whole sequence is set up like the usual reset-button scenario. They were toying with our minds
No.
The reset switch was pushed on the whole Star Trek back catalog. Clearly a cop out to make the life of writers easier.
The reset switch was pushed on the whole Star Trek back catalog. Clearly a cop out to make the life of writers easier.
At the moment I was watching the movie, I was thinking, "Wait, if they go to warp inside the gravity well of a black hole, that's going to cause a slingshot effect and send them two days back in time!" But then it didn't happen. ...
After 735 episodes, I am conditioned to expect a reset-button ending, so that after every major disaster, the characters simply undo everything and never have to deal with the consequences. Case in point: "Star Trek III" (Oh my god! Spock's dead! Oh, wait, he's alive again. Never mind.")
Imagine my surprise when I was actually surprised by the ending of a "Star Trek" movie.
Plus, they brilliantly avoided the prequel curse, where the audience already knows what will happen -- or worse, what CAN'T happen.
If you're sitting there thinking, "Earth and Vulcan are in no danger, since we know they are still there in the future," then the story becomes completely pointless, with no real jeopardy.
By using time travel, we cannot anticipate what will happen next, so we get the best of both worlds: familiar characters in a familiar universe, but story possibilities that are not constrained by our knowledge of how things will turn out. That's what put a creative damper on the "Star Wars" prequels. We already knew how they would end.
After 735 episodes, I am conditioned to expect a reset-button ending, so that after every major disaster, the characters simply undo everything and never have to deal with the consequences. Case in point: "Star Trek III" (Oh my god! Spock's dead! Oh, wait, he's alive again. Never mind.")
Imagine my surprise when I was actually surprised by the ending of a "Star Trek" movie.
No, the writers are still bound by 40 years of canon, with the added responsibility of trying to imagine the consequences of the changes in this alternate timeline within the canon.
Plus, they brilliantly avoided the prequel curse, where the audience already knows what will happen -- or worse, what CAN'T happen.
If you're sitting there thinking, "Earth and Vulcan are in no danger, since we know they are still there in the future," then the story becomes completely pointless, with no real jeopardy.
By using time travel, we cannot anticipate what will happen next, so we get the best of both worlds: familiar characters in a familiar universe, but story possibilities that are not constrained by our knowledge of how things will turn out. That's what put a creative damper on the "Star Wars" prequels. We already knew how they would end.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
No. It was pushed to make room for interesting stories in what clearly is the era of Trek most of us prefer.
Please stop saying that. The writers themselves on the interview admit it. Now everything can happen on this alternate parallel universe. Call it the butterfly effect if you want. I'm glad you like the change they have made, no need to disperse falsehood.
Its also appreciated that they use a quantum(parallel) approach to time travel to keep the original Trek timeline alive in our mind and the door open for writers, directors to use it in their next books, series, movies, etc.
Glad to see someone which talk for all the Trek fans. Too bad I wasn't there to vote for you.
Anyway, I think it was still possible to make good stories about the TOS era and still keep in line with the continuity. Simply because there (must be) a lot of stories the old TV show and the movies didn't tell us about Kirk and co adventure. Its what I would have prefer. Beside Kirk and Spock not dying, what do we really know about the TOS era that is that cumbersome for future storyline?
Lets call it for what it is. Its a cop out to make the life easier for the writer. It may turns out to be a good thing if they make good movie. But they clearly have taken the easy route, by creating a new alternate universe, by going for a reimagination.
They did push the infamous reset button on the whole Trek back catalog. Everything you know about the Trek universe, didn't happen. While main species like the Vulcan, Klingon, Romulan, The Federation are still part of the universe. As well as Kirk, Spock, Uhura and company. So not everything is lost.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Glad to see someone which talk for all the Trek fans. Too bad I wasn't there to vote for you.
Get off your high horse, will you?
Okay, it does make the life and work of the writers easier. It gives them much more creative freedom to tell new stories with these old characters.
And the best part is: we don't know how everything will end up.
Pretty much the same.
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
Please stop saying that. The writers themselves on the interview admit it. Now everything can happen on this alternate parallel universe. Call it the butterfly effect if you want. I'm glad you like the change they have made, no need to disperse falsehood.
Its also appreciated that they use a quantum(parallel) approach to time travel to keep the original Trek timeline alive in our mind and the door open for writers, directors to use it in their next books, series, movies, etc.
Glad to see someone which talk for all the Trek fans. Too bad I wasn't there to vote for you.
Well, he's speaking for me.
I think the new movie should stand on its own.
Glad to see someone which talk for all the Trek fans. Too bad I wasn't there to vote for you.
Get off your high horse, will you?
Why don't you take your own advice? I will repeat it to give you some pleasure: Nobody here is speaking for all of us... Whatever "us" means. If somebody does, I want to know when the vote was taken.
All Trek fans have their preferred Trek series. Mine is not TOS, which was still very good as almost all Trek series (only Enterprise is in another category). While its true the writers have pushed the infamous reset button on the whole Trek back catalog. I like continuity because its more fun. I still don't see how the previous TOS stories were so cumbersome for them. But if its easier for them to make good story. It may turns out to be a good thing. For example, its possible that they will reimagine the Khan storyline. If they make a good story out of it, then its great.
I experienced exactly the same thoughts and feelings at my first viewing because as you, I was spoiler free and had just vaguely heard about an alternate timeline.
When the Enterprise didn't get sucked into the blackhole, I realised that there wasn't going to be a reset and understanding that Vulcan and Amanda were really gone hit me like a ton of bricks. I exited the theater in a bit of a shocked state
I was actually shocked there wasn't one.. I thought for sure they'd go back and fix Vulcan. I am still miffed about that one.
I experienced exactly the same thoughts and feelings at my first viewing because as you, I was spoiler free and had just vaguely heard about an alternate timeline.
When the Enterprise didn't get sucked into the blackhole, I realised that there wasn't going to be a reset and understanding that Vulcan and Amanda were really gone hit me like a ton of bricks. I exited the theater in a bit of a shocked state
Same for me - although I hadn't heard any spoilers at all. Based on years of Trek-watching, I thought that there was no way that that there wouldn't be the reset. Actually, I am really surprised at how ok I am that it didn't happen.
I was pretty sure it was going to happen, so as to "fix" the look of the bridge and Enterprise exterior to something more familiar. But, I do appreciate that they didn't take the easy route to restore Vulcan and Amanda. That did raise the level of the movie in my opinion.
Well... As the entire movie showed, going back in time creates an entirely different timeline. So if they DID go back in time to stop Nero, they would bump into themselves and as much as I'd like for them to save Vulcan.. having 2 sets of everybody (and 3 of Spock) is just a bit over the top.
The only thing I thought of was "What a gyp... the old "dead guy on the carpet grabs your ankle" multi-ending.
The black hole could only be as strong as the amount of matter it consumes - in this case, a mostly hollow spaceship, which could mush down to smaller than a pinhead. And, as I've said elsewhere, it wouldn't have been a problem if Kirk had thought like a Starfleet Captain instead of wasting time killing something that was already doomed to be the makings of a black hole star - red matter was not a black hole in itself, it just compressed matter so one would form: No escape for Nero, watch your ship, Mr. Kirk...
The whole movie beforehand let me know that JJ was going to bull through this in his own way, so the concept that he would flip-flop just never occurred to me.
The black hole could only be as strong as the amount of matter it consumes - in this case, a mostly hollow spaceship, which could mush down to smaller than a pinhead. And, as I've said elsewhere, it wouldn't have been a problem if Kirk had thought like a Starfleet Captain instead of wasting time killing something that was already doomed to be the makings of a black hole star - red matter was not a black hole in itself, it just compressed matter so one would form: No escape for Nero, watch your ship, Mr. Kirk...
The whole movie beforehand let me know that JJ was going to bull through this in his own way, so the concept that he would flip-flop just never occurred to me.
Don't you need to be wearing a pair of Ruby Slippers for that to work, though?
I didn't think about a reset button at all I just thought it was weird that the ship was getting sucked into a black hole. I don't know much about science or anything but I know if you got caught in a black hole you'd be crushed in seconds you wouldn't be slowly drug into it. Unless that wasn't an authentic black hole. It didn't really bother me I just thought it strange that people working on a Star Trek movie wouldn't think about that.
I'm so lame at science (even ST science) that I didn't think about that until I read that question here. Then I figured that blackholes created by the Red Matter aren't ordinary blackholes. Or maybe it's also a question of mass: a ship is much smaller than a whole planet and could somehow pass through?
And there's also the fact that the blackhole was created right into the core of Vulcan, so the planet was destroyed by beeing absorbed from inside (IMO, that's why Nero went through the processus of driling through the planet's crust to its core. It would have been faster to just release Red Matter in the planet's atmosphere otherwise). But then, the Narada should have been pulverised as soon as the blackhole was created right into it! As I said, I'm not good at this.
Hell, I'm thinking since my first viewing that the time line didn't change to create an alternate reality when the Narada destroyed the Kelvin but that both the Narada and Spock traveled not only back in time but also in a parallel dimension when they went through the blackhole, so...
And there's also the fact that the blackhole was created right into the core of Vulcan, so the planet was destroyed by beeing absorbed from inside (IMO, that's why Nero went through the processus of driling through the planet's crust to its core. It would have been faster to just release Red Matter in the planet's atmosphere otherwise). But then, the Narada should have been pulverised as soon as the blackhole was created right into it! As I said, I'm not good at this.
Hell, I'm thinking since my first viewing that the time line didn't change to create an alternate reality when the Narada destroyed the Kelvin but that both the Narada and Spock traveled not only back in time but also in a parallel dimension when they went through the blackhole, so...
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