Did anyone like Martha?

[Bacl]

I've said this all before, but here goes:

-Martha did not get the best writing, and suffered from "Rose Fatigue", meaning that too much attention was given to the greatness of the former companion and that this detracted from Martha.

-Don't confuse the actress with the character. Actors and actresses don't decide their character arc, what their character says, not even what their character gets to express. They have to work within very strict confines of the script and direction. A strong actor still looks like shit with shit script and shit direction.

-Martha got her best stuff in the Family of Blood two-parter. Here she comes together as a great character, and she really shines. Sadly, this was pretty much it for her.

-You've likely got all the episodes memorized, so play this game: Take your FAVORITE companion and imagine them being FORCED to read Martha's lines. They can't change words, decisions, etc. They can only read her lines in their voice with their tones and inflections. Do you really think Amy/Rose/Donna/Whoever would suddenly make the Martha character much better? Now take your favorite companion and imagine Freema reading the lines. I think Freema could have pulled off a poor girl with pluck and spirit from the projects (Rose) or an loud mouthed bitch (Donna) just fine. Martha had poor writing, not poor acting.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Which is probably one of the main reasons that Donna is my favorite companion.

Didn't care for her - unattractive, loud and boorish, not overly bright.

And I certainly prefer the romantic tension that Nine and Ten had with Rose to the kind of relationships that followed her.

Nine and Rose played it about right for me, by the time Ten came along they gave up any pretense of a love that dare not speak its name and had the two of them running around like giggling schoolgirls...

Yes, and they were having such a good time. They enjoyed one another's company. That made them fun to watch.

 

[Starkers]

Tis a fine line between fun and annoying!

And from what I've seen of Freema as an actress I still don't think she could have pulled off playing Donna, at least no where near as good, irrespective of acting ability she just lacked screen presense, and maybe in an ensemble you can get away with that, but in a two hander like Who she just tended to melt into the scenery at times. And at times she just didn't seem natural or comfortable in the same way Billie, Catherine and Karen do, you could see her acting at times, if that remotely makes sense!

Of course that might mean that Freema is the only one acting and the other three are just being themselves

 

[TheLobes]

Seriously? Did anyone like that character at all?

Yes.

Then I change my question to: why do people like Martha?

There were exactly four scenes in all of Series Three where Martha is upset that the Doctor is in love with someone else: When she's irritated that she's throwing herself at him in "The Shakespeare Code" and he doesn't notice because he's missing Rose; when she's upset that John Smith fell for Nurse Redfern instead of her in "Human Nature;" when she confesses her unrequited love for the Doctor to John Smith in "The Family of Blood;" when he is irritated to hear from Captain Jack that Rose was a blonde in "Utopia." At no point does she "moan;" her reactions are completely natural, and completely controlled.

... and this sets her apart from every character who gets to travel with the Doctor and then excitedly shares that news, how?

and the girl playing her was a pretty lousy actress. Her personality didnt complement the Doctor,

Completely subjective, but I don't agree. I felt that Freema Agyeman is a delightful and charismatic actor who brings life to lines that are seemingly boring, and I felt that Martha's more quiet, grounded nature complemented -- and nicely countered -- both the Tenth Doctor, and Rose.

and she didnt bring anything to the show.

Factually inaccurate. She brought to the show a story about how to cope with unrequited love and preserve your self-respect when in that situation. It may not have worked for you, but she did bring something to the table -- a message which I would suspect would be enormously useful to the many young Who fans about to discover love's keen sting in just a few years.

Yeah, four episodes in all, but out of 12 episodes (not including 'Blink'). So that means she was moaning in 1 out of every 3 episodes! It wasnt just the frequency, though. I always felt that Martha had this air of self entitlement about her; she seemed to think the doctor would just naturally fall in love with her. As you yourself write:

'she's irritated that she's throwing herself at him in "The Shakespeare Code" and he doesn't notice because he's missing Rose'

This is her second episode, they just barely know each other, and at this point the doctor has only said he'll take her on one damn trip! So, shes throwing herself at someone she barely knows and then gets annoyed that hes pining after someone who he's known for a few years, and who actually helped make him into what he is today!

The same sort of thing is true of how she told other people about her experiences in space. With other companions, I get the impression that they feel really lucky to be with the doctor, whereas Martha gives off the idea that she somehow just deserves to see all these great things. Perhaps this a problem with the actress!

I know its subjective, but there are plenty of times when we see Freema's awful acting skills. Take a look at some of the scenes in 'The Last of the Time Lords', particularly when shes with the Master, and with the collaborater women. She gives the situation no gravity, she doesnt seem angry or scared, she just looks totally normal. Also, even though its not exactly conclusive evidence, its seems like most people on the thread agree with me about this.

I do agree with you about her bringing something to the story, i certainly got that wrong. However, I have to ask: 'Is that it?' Its a nice idea that she learnt not to come with the Doctor, but I dont think this qualifies her for a whole series. Her whole character revolved around this idea, and that just wasnt enough.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'll take Martha over Rose and Freema over Billie any day of the week.

 

[Sci]

Yeah, four episodes in all, but out of 12 episodes (not including 'Blink').

And maybe a grand total of eight minutes of screen time -- if we're being generous. Hardly an overwhelming aspect of her characterization.

It wasnt just the frequency, though. I always felt that Martha had this air of self entitlement about her; she seemed to think the doctor would just naturally fall in love with her.

I really don't know why you felt that way; I certainly never thought so.

As you yourself write:

she's irritated that she's throwing herself at him in "The Shakespeare Code" and he doesn't notice because he's missing Rose

This is her second episode, they just barely know each other, and at this point the doctor has only said he'll take her on one damn trip! So, shes throwing herself at someone she barely knows and then gets annoyed that hes pining after someone who he's known for a few years, and who actually helped make him into what he is today!

Dude, the guy kissed her in the middle of a crisis, then tracked her down and invited her to run away with him. And then, in that very scene, he invited her to sleep in the same bed as him! She was pissed because he was sending her completely mixed signals, not because, in the abstract, she felt entitled to his affections. The Doctor was being a total douchebag, frankly, albeit unintentionally.

The same sort of thing is true of how she told other people about her experiences in space. With other companions, I get the impression that they feel really lucky to be with the doctor, whereas Martha gives off the idea that she somehow just deserves to see all these great things. Perhaps this a problem with the actress!

Again, I don't know why you felt that way. I certainly never got that impression from her.

I know its subjective, but there are plenty of times when we see Freema's awful acting skills. Take a look at some of the scenes in 'The Last of the Time Lords', particularly when shes with the Master, and with the collaborater women. She gives the situation no gravity, she doesnt seem angry or scared, she just looks totally normal.

I, on the other hand, thought that Agyeman absolutely shined in "Last of the Time Lords." Especially in the climatic scene aboard the Valiant.

I do agree with you about her bringing something to the story, i certainly got that wrong. However, I have to ask: 'Is that it?' Its a nice idea that she learnt not to come with the Doctor, but I dont think this qualifies her for a whole series. Her whole character revolved around this idea, and that just wasnt enough.

Well, I think the thing about Martha is that she was a character created to tell one specific story, with a beginning, middle, and end; she wasn't there to really carry a series over multiple seasons. I'd evaluate her the way I would a character from a mini-series or movie rather than a character who's supposed to have a continuing storyline across several different seasons.

 

[Australis]

I think Martha had an arc, and grew strong through the story, so I could believe her walking the Earth for a year.

Also, 'Blink' was supposedly a non-Doctor story, but there she is, bow in hand, hunting a dangerous lifeform. Nah, she grew, probably faster than Rose.

 

[Starkers]

She was probably just holding it for the Doctor till he needed it. Face it she was a door mat.

"Martha could you work as a skivvy in 1913 for a few months while I hide out?"

"Martha will you get a job in a shop so I can afford bits for my timey wimey detector?"

"Martha will you wander the Earth telling everyone all about how wonderful I am for a year?"

Christ the girl did eventually grow a backbone, but boy did it take some time!

 

[STR]

Also, 'Blink' was supposedly a non-Doctor story,

Side note, but I really hate those. You only put out 12 eps a year and you still can't be bothered to use your star (the main reason I'm even watching the thing) for more than 4 minutes? I felt cheated.

 

[TheLobes]

Also, 'Blink' was supposedly a non-Doctor story,

Side note, but I really hate those. You only put out 12 eps a year and you still can't be bothered to use your star (the main reason I'm even watching the thing) for more than 4 minutes? I felt cheated.

The main reason you watch DW is because of 'the star'? Arent you influenced at all by the writing and the stories?

 

[DWF]

Also, 'Blink' was supposedly a non-Doctor story,

Side note, but I really hate those. You only put out 12 eps a year and you still can't be bothered to use your star (the main reason I'm even watching the thing) for more than 4 minutes? I felt cheated.

They produce 14 eps. in the amount of time it takes to produce 13 so they give the star some time off, I don't see the problem actors on the old series would be given time off every now and again.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I've often thought Martha was the unfortunate "rebound" character mentioned before. And I think it seeped into everything, not only how the Doctor treated her but the writers, press, the fans and so on.

She slaved for months as a scullery maid in a racist environment just so the Doctor didn't have to own up to his actions, she traversed the world for a year getting everyone to worship the Doctor so he could free "himself" from the Master and so on, she had to find work in 1969 to support him while they were stuck there. You'd think the Doctor would be more grateful, the bastard.

 

[Steve67]

Martha's hands down my favorite of the nuWho assistants. Of course, I could've done without the forced (non) romance angle, but thankfully it was so half-baked to begin with that it never really caught on. Having said that, I despise any notion of an assistant-Doctor romance. I also despise the overuse of an assistant's family; Martha's sucked, especially that bitch of a mother; Rose's was just Eastenders castoffs, and Donna's existed only as mawkish, sentimental manipulations of the audience.

What RTD did was slap the audience with Coronation Street soap opera muck in order to make the new series "deeper" by trashing the Doctor's previous relationships with humans. It's a far (and inferior) cry to City of Death, when Tom Baker says to Catherine Schell: "You're a beautiful woman...probably." That line signified The Doctor's non-romantic involvement in the "dumb apes" (as the ninth Doctor referred to humans) and it should've stayed that way between Tenth and Rose. He could be genuinely upset over losing her in Doomsday and felt guilt over being responsible for her, but to have it be some kind of romance is against everything that Dr Who was about. I always believed that RTD saw himself as Rose Tyler...

 

[od0_ital]

.... You'd think the Doctor would be more grateful, the bastard.

He did get her a job at UNIT, ya know...

 

[JRoss]

Didn't like Martha, did like Freema.

 

[Sindatur]

Martha's hands down my favorite of the nuWho assistants. Of course, I could've done without the forced (non) romance angle, but thankfully it was so half-baked to begin with that it never really caught on. Having said that, I despise any notion of an assistant-Doctor romance. I also despise the overuse of an assistant's family; Martha's sucked, especially that bitch of a mother; Rose's was just Eastenders castoffs, and Donna's existed only as mawkish, sentimental manipulations of the audience.

What RTD did was slap the audience with Coronation Street soap opera muck in order to make the new series "deeper" by trashing the Doctor's previous relationships with humans. It's a far (and inferior) cry to City of Death, when Tom Baker says to Catherine Schell: "You're a beautiful woman...probably." That line signified The Doctor's non-romantic involvement in the "dumb apes" (as the ninth Doctor referred to humans) and it should've stayed that way between Tenth and Rose. He could be genuinely upset over losing her in Doomsday and felt guilt over being responsible for her, but to have it be some kind of romance is against everything that Dr Who was about. I always believed that RTD saw himself as Rose Tyler...

Rose, I agree, the romance was a bit much, but, as long as it was just the once, I can live with it. I actually enjoyed Mickey and Jackie both, so, no problem with that family.

Martha's family, yea, they didn't really serve any purpose.

Donna, her mom didn't really serve any purpose, but, I think Wilf was great all by himself, and I wouldn't want to retcon out his appearances.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

As a new, nuWho fan, I'm coming in fresh and don't quite truly know what the "spirit" of The Doctor's relationship with his companions is supposed to be when compared to previous incarnations of the series. The various thematic elements of each passing season ranging from the budding romance with Rose, Martha's infatuation with The Doctor, the strictly plutonic relationship with Donna and now kind of team aspect with The Doctor, Amy, Rory and sometimes River is actually quite refreshing than keeping one companion around for the ever so tiring "will they won't they angst" that most shows seem to utilize over and over again.

Since the summer hiatus started all I've been watching has been Doctor Who and I've now pretty much just started season 6 (episode 6.3 to be exact) so I am almost caught up. It's been one hell of a ride and will definitely be sad when it ends once I am caught up because now I (like I'm sure you guys are) gotta wait until they come back with the second part of the sixth season. At least I'll have Torchwood to keep me occupied.

As for the topic at hand. I've mentioned this in other threads but yes I liked Martha. I liked Rose and originally I detested Donna, but in hindsight, her character arc turned out pretty good. I really like Amy and Rory as companions too.

What I did notice though is that at least for the first 3 companions, what was up with all the mother/daughter issues? Rose and Jackie, Martha and her mother and especially Donna and her mother.

 

[Newspaper Taxi]

I put Martha in average territory as far as companions go. I like her just fine -- but she didn't blow my mind. I appreciated that she was training to be a doctor herself and that was strong enough to stop chasing the Doctor and pursue her own life goals. I wouldn't be against her falling in love with the Doctor if we hadn't just had two seasons of that; buta s it were, it felt a little redundant.

But yeah, I'd way rather see Martha return than, say, Mel. And how can all these people say Donna's not sexy? Check out them boobs and her running scenes.

 

[Emissary of the Prophets]

When Dalek Caan prophesied that the most faithfull companion of all would die, it took it to mean Martha. She was the strongest companion that he'd had in a long time. I was never a fan of Rose. Martha did what no companion had ever done. She protected and watched over the Doctor when he was John Smith. She walked the Earth for a year. She turned her back on him when he thought that they would carry on travelling after the Master's defeat.
Martha is one of my favourite companions (she ranks higher than Rose and Donna).

 

[timelord1010]

When Dalek Caan prophesied that the most faithfull companion of all would die, it took it to mean Martha. She was the strongest companion that he'd had in a long time. I was never a fan of Rose. Martha did what no companion had ever done. She protected and watched over the Doctor when he was John Smith. She walked the Earth for a year. She turned her back on him when he thought that they would carry on traveling after the Master's defeat.
Martha is one of my favourite companions (she ranks higher than Rose and Donna).

Martha gets a bad wrap. I think she would have gone over better if they would have left the sexual attraction for the Doctor out of it and just had her like most companions, just looking for adventure.