Did any actors ever do a less than "stellar" job?

[DevilEyes]

T'Pol was never stable (look at "Fusion" in season 1) and it was pretty clear that she was actually always drawn to the species "she could barely tolerate being around without a nasal inhibitor", especially to its more emotional specimens, because she never really felt at home with the Vulcan suppression and always secretly longed to give into emotions... That's the essence of the character. One of the first episodes that showed her rebelling against the Vulcan customs ("Breaking the Ice") showed a start of the connection between her and "country bumpkin" Trip, who played a role in helping her make the decision to stay on Enterprise at the expense of her obligations to the Vulcan tradition and her engagement to Koss. (Unfortunately, the writers mostly ignored that connection for the next season and a half, and then when they decided to have Trip and T'Pol hook up, instead of building up on it, introduced the silly Vulcan neuro-pressure sessions.)

Now there were certainly instances where TPTB treated T'Pol horribly - "Bounty" comes to mind: that was cheap, exploitative, debasing and, most importantly, completely pointless in terms of character development. But the Trelium-D storyline definitely was an intrinsic part of T'Pol's characterization - and I think it's one of the great things about season 3: the show finally took some risks and showed some guts by having its two main characters hit rock bottom - Archer with the piracy and T'Pol with her addiction - as seen in "Azati Prime/Damage", which get additional points from me for wrecking the ship really good in a way that's never been done before in Trek (with the scenes of crewmembers being sucked into space and all) and having the consequences stick.

I think that the reason why there is such a split between people who hate the way T'Pol was written and/or acted, and those who love it, is because people have such specific, previously defined expectations of what Vulcans are supposed to be like, and every Vulcan who doesn't fit that is criticized for not being "true Vulcan" or for not being the same as Spock or Sarek. But there are other people who hate uniformity in the portrayal of alien characters, and love it when an alien character does not fit the idea of what their race is supposed to be. Humans are quite diverse, aren't they?
(Now, only if Vulcans could show variety in their hairstyle, too... but that's another matter... )

While our heroes are not perfect, the thought of someone like T'Pol falling to drug addiction is unfathomable. I could see it for someone like Tasha Yar, with her young age and horrific early experiences. I could have seen it for Kira Nerys for the same reasons.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tasha had had such experiences. It could have been interesting if the show had explored that. They kinda started to in "The Naked Time" - which in a way showed that Tasha was very susceptible to "getting drunk"...

Kira didn't need drugs because, apart from having her faith to fall back on, she had channelled all her pain in anger and hatred, which is as powerful as a drug addiction.

 

[Mareika]

Marina Sirtis was definitely awkward on occasions but it seemed to me that that was mostly because the writers didn't know what to do with the character.

Robert Beltran could be wooden but he had plenty of good moments too IMO. His professionalism slipped in the later seasons when he allowed his disenchantment with the turn of events to effect his attitude.

Agree about Marina Sirtis. I haven`t watched her in other roles than in TNG, so I can`t judge her acting stile.

Also agree about Robert Beltran. He had many good moments, but the writer didn`t much care for him. I`ve watched many of his movies and he was good. I`ve read reports from his stage performances. He got great reviews. So he can`t be a bad actor.

 

[Cepstrum]

I can't speak about T'Pol's drug addiction, for I quit Enterprise after two seasons. I might have watched more, but Comcast quit giving me free cable when they switched to digital (they had been — knowingly — letting me use their regular cable package that included SciFi/ScyFy and Spike, even though I was just paying the ~$8/month to get the few local channels. My reception is poor with bunny ears. That coincide with the end of reruns of Enterprise at the last episode of the second season.)

But I do prefer a Tim Russ Vulcan over a Blalock one. *Unless*, and I still don't know the answer to this, she was supposed to act that way OR the writers made Vulcans so different the from TOS/TNG era kind that they needed a "reformation". So which drove which: did Blalock's acting inspire the Vulcan arc or was it planned for her to act in stark constrast to previously seen Vulcans only to reveal later that Vulcans were different then and/or she was half Romulan?


As for Beltran's notorious "wooden" and uninterested/indifferent acting, I *never* saw it or had a clue about it until I read about it later online. I must be very dense, for he was one of the characters I liked more than others on VOY. In fact, he is my brother's (a non-Trekkie but very familar with it all but DS9) favorite VOY character, and I think favorite first officer. It makes me feel like a gullible dunce for not recognizing any of it, despite the fact I own two seasons of VOY on DVD, have almost all episides on tape, and have seen most at least twice.


As for one of you thinking Garret Wang had been "miscast" after seeing him in "Timeless": do you mean you think he did a poor job conveying a green and naïve ensign Harry OR that Harry should have been allowed to act more like he did in "Timeless"? ie, was Wang not right for the character, or was the character just uninteresting to you (and many others, certainly, though I liked Wang/Harry)?


Finally, regarding Bakula and the rest of the Enterprise cast: I thought they were all uninteresting/not compelling, but I don't know if that's because of the actors or the writers. I think many even Enterprise fans would admit seasons one and two of Enterprise were *not* among Trek's better moments. I nonetheless *did* doggedly stick through them. I'd like to see the much acclaimed season three sometime. I feel I'm owed it after watching "A Night in Sickbay", hehe.



One more thing: am I right in assuming that, aside from Bakula's Archer, the great majority of fans think the casting of the other four captains/leads was terrific, even if, say, they don't like one of the series as a whole (such as appreciating Mulgrew's Janeway even if they didn't like VOY or even some of her controversial actions)? Is it safe to say it's fairly indisputable that Shatner, Stewart, Brooks, and Mulgrew are well-regarded in their Trek roles?

 

[barnaclelapse]

I confess I never warmed to Denise Crosby and was quite pleased when she left.

Me too. Although she was strong in her later guest appearances.

 

[Cepstrum]

I confess I never warmed to Denise Crosby and was quite pleased when she left.

Me too. Although she was strong in her later guest appearances.

^^^
though I wonder if that has more to do with TNG's first season. I didn't like Yar either, but I also didn't like Worf, Geordi, or Riker much in season one. About the only ones I did like were Picard and Data. But the first season, I think most everyone would agree, was peculiarly bad.


Right now I'm thinking of the time when Tasha "explained" to an overly naïve Wesley about how abusing drugs is bad.

 

[StarryEyed]

As for one of you thinking Garret Wang had been "miscast" after seeing him in "Timeless": do you mean you think he did a poor job conveying a green and naïve ensign Harry OR that Harry should have been allowed to act more like he did in "Timeless"? ie, was Wang not right for the character, or was the character just uninteresting to you (and many others, certainly, though I liked Wang/Harry)?

The regular Harry Kim was perfectly realistic and the type of individual we would most likely see on starships in the real world. He was just boring and uninteresting from a dramatic standpoint. Wang was very convincing as the hurt Harry in 'Timeless' but I wouldn't want to constantly see that Harry without a backstory justifying that kind of anger and cynicism (like Kira Nerys). So, yeah, I guess I'm saying that Garret Wang was simply not suited for playing a green ensign. Given that type of character, he came across as lethally boring.

 

[Cepstrum]

As for one of you thinking Garret Wang had been "miscast" after seeing him in "Timeless": do you mean you think he did a poor job conveying a green and naïve ensign Harry OR that Harry should have been allowed to act more like he did in "Timeless"? ie, was Wang not right for the character, or was the character just uninteresting to you (and many others, certainly, though I liked Wang/Harry)?

The regular Harry Kim was perfectly realistic and the type of individual we would most likely see on starships in the real world. He was just boring and uninteresting from a dramatic standpoint. Wang was very convincing as the hurt Harry in 'Timeless' but I wouldn't want to constantly see that Harry without a backstory justifying that kind of anger and cynicism (like Kira Nerys). So, yeah, I guess I'm saying that Garret Wang was simply not suited for playing a green ensign. Given that type of character, he came across as lethally boring.

"Lethally boring" is pretty bad, hehe!

It must be a matter of opinion in some these cases, for Kim was one characters I was more fond of. Either that, or I'm a terrible judge of acting etc., (which is quite possible, given my limited viewing experience). *And* the fact that many/most didn't like Harry and he came close to being dropped from the show.

 

[Anji]

Scott Bakula. I think the guy is a great actor but horribly miscast.

 

[StarryEyed]

As for one of you thinking Garret Wang had been "miscast" after seeing him in "Timeless": do you mean you think he did a poor job conveying a green and naïve ensign Harry OR that Harry should have been allowed to act more like he did in "Timeless"? ie, was Wang not right for the character, or was the character just uninteresting to you (and many others, certainly, though I liked Wang/Harry)?

The regular Harry Kim was perfectly realistic and the type of individual we would most likely see on starships in the real world. He was just boring and uninteresting from a dramatic standpoint. Wang was very convincing as the hurt Harry in 'Timeless' but I wouldn't want to constantly see that Harry without a backstory justifying that kind of anger and cynicism (like Kira Nerys). So, yeah, I guess I'm saying that Garret Wang was simply not suited for playing a green ensign. Given that type of character, he came across as lethally boring.

"Lethally boring" is pretty bad, hehe!

It must be a matter of opinion in some these cases, for Kim was one characters I was more fond of. Either that, or I'm a terrible judge of acting etc., (which is quite possible, given my limited viewing experience). *And* the fact that many/most didn't like Harry and he came close to being dropped from the show.

Cepstrum, you shouldn't automatically think that you are wrong because you disagree with most of the rest of us. If Wang/Kim worked for you than so be it. The adequacy of Wang's performance is subjective, not objective. Your opinion is just as valid as any of ours'.

 

[Sadara]

Depends on which moment you mean, but there was that part, when Troy wasn't "interested" - when she lost her empathic ability and believed she was useless as a counselor - in addition she was irritable, angry, frustrated, but not compassionate any more.

I'm talking about the first scene *before* she lost her empathic abilities. And while I can sympathize with her about losing her empathic powers, I was annoyed by her attitude later that she couldn't do her job. She has an education. As an aspiring counselor myself, I'll have to assist others as best I can without empathic powers.

 

[Sadara]

Depends on which moment you mean, but there was that part, when Troy wasn't "interested" - when she lost her empathic ability and believed she was useless as a counselor - in addition she was irritable, angry, frustrated, but not compassionate any more.

I agree. Wasn't Troi supposed to be uninterested in her role as a non-empathetc counselor? She was pretty depressed at the time but at first didn't admit it (until she snapped).

There was a scene at the beginning of the ep where she was counseling someone, looking rather uninterested, *before* she lost her empathic powers.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

I'm talking about the first scene *before* she lost her empathic abilities.

I see. Personally I don't see anything "weak" there.

And while I can sympathize with her about losing her empathic powers, I was annoyed by her attitude later that she couldn't do her job. She has an education. As an aspiring counselor myself, I'll have to assist others as best I can without empathic powers.

At that time she needed a counselor. She lost one of her senses, so I'm not surprised she had hard time dealing with it.

 

[Cepstrum]

The regular Harry Kim was perfectly realistic and the type of individual we would most likely see on starships in the real world. He was just boring and uninteresting from a dramatic standpoint. Wang was very convincing as the hurt Harry in 'Timeless' but I wouldn't want to constantly see that Harry without a backstory justifying that kind of anger and cynicism (like Kira Nerys). So, yeah, I guess I'm saying that Garret Wang was simply not suited for playing a green ensign. Given that type of character, he came across as lethally boring.

"Lethally boring" is pretty bad, hehe!

It must be a matter of opinion in some these cases, for Kim was one characters I was more fond of. Either that, or I'm a terrible judge of acting etc., (which is quite possible, given my limited viewing experience). *And* the fact that many/most didn't like Harry and he came close to being dropped from the show.

Cepstrum, you shouldn't automatically think that you are wrong because you disagree with most of the rest of us. If Wang/Kim worked for you than so be it. The adequacy of Wang's performance is subjective, not objective. Your opinion is just as valid as any of ours'.

Well, thank you for the vote of confidence, StarryEyed. I actually *do* tend to assume I'm wrong a lot. IRL people make fun of my eternal pessimism.

But really: I do value your and others' opinions in this matter, for I feel especially clueless when it comes to detecting poor acting. Again, the *only* time I recall noticing someone looked uninterested or flat was in the SW prequels. And those were good actors. I ascribed to the fact that almost all their acting was in front of blue screens. It's probably hard to act in front of a camera and blue wall while pretending to talk to CGI characters who aren't there!



Btw, did I mention I hate myself? Seriously. I'm chronically anhedonic. Just like Dukat accused Weyoun of being. Forced to lie in bed 18--20 hours a day while on medical leave from work *and* academia/school more than six months after a botched surgery doesn't help.

I can't even use a computer to use the web. I have to use a second hand older iPod Touch (which I'm grateful for!).

 

[Cepstrum]

Depends on which moment you mean, but there was that part, when Troy wasn't "interested" - when she lost her empathic ability and believed she was useless as a counselor - in addition she was irritable, angry, frustrated, but not compassionate any more.

I agree. Wasn't Troi supposed to be uninterested in her role as a non-empathetc counselor? She was pretty depressed at the time but at first didn't admit it (until she snapped).

There was a scene at the beginning of the ep where she was counseling someone, looking rather uninterested, *before* she lost her empathic powers.

Ok. I didn't recall that such a scene existed. I really don't like watching that episode!


But I agree with Gul'Rejal: I would imagine it would be difficult to suddenly lose one of your senses. It's not *quite* like going blind, but maybe like suddenly losing your ability to smell and taste or lose your fluency in a second language.

Though I'd think a trained counselor wouldn't be in such fierce denial about it until she snapped at everyone. I still think they should've had a psychiatrist on board, given the size of the ship and the number of mind-altering adventures they had.

 

[Sadara]

I'm talking about the first scene *before* she lost her empathic abilities.

I see. Personally I don't see anything "weak" there.

And while I can sympathize with her about losing her empathic powers, I was annoyed by her attitude later that she couldn't do her job. She has an education. As an aspiring counselor myself, I'll have to assist others as best I can without empathic powers.

At that time she needed a counselor. She lost one of her senses, so I'm not surprised she had hard time dealing with it.

Yes and fascinatingly resistant to even the suggestion. She gets too hysterical. JMO.

 

[Cepstrum]

^^^^

but was the fault of the writers or Sirtis?

 

[Sadara]

^^^^

but was the fault of the writers or Sirtis?

Of the hysterical part, likely the writers, but in terms of the first scene I was talking about, she looks like she's bored out of her skull.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

Yes and fascinatingly resistant to even the suggestion. She gets too hysterical. JMO.

She could experience how hard it is sitting on the other side and occurred to be a difficult counselor patient herself

 

[GeorgeKirk]

Has anyone else noticed how Marina Sirtis basically stopped playing Troi after Generations? Sure, she appeared as the character several more times, but she stopped doing Troi's accent and overall Troi seemed to become nothing but Marina in a Star Trek costume. I saw a clip of one of the Troi and Riker scenes from TaTV (sorry, I just don't have strong enough a stomach to sit through the whole thing) and it didn't seem like Marina was acting at all. Troi basically acted and sounded exactly like Marina. There was zero difference between the character and the actor.

I don't want to say she was mailing it in, but it sure looked like that's what she was doing.

 

[George]

I could never really connect with Pulaski. Her character seemed so one-dimensional, so unreal... ...she didn't seem like much more than an extra who accidentally started speaking.