Same. Though I never understood why people do those things to their bodies. Fourteen pounds of pizza. Blech. I like to enjoy my food.
Despite franchise fatigue, older Star Trek shows have a high degree of original plots. Minimal use of Recycled Plots.
Same. Though I never understood why people do those things to their bodies. Fourteen pounds of pizza. Blech. I like to enjoy my food.
Yeah, I thought it could go either way actually with Man vs. Fate. But I think it’s up to interpretation for sure.
Well luckily engaging in these thread subjects is all voluntary.
I don't think my own novel really falls into any of the above; it's structured as a biography of a fictional character. But it's got (wo)man against society, and (wo)man against another individual, (wo)man against happenstance, and (wo)man against self.
Be that as it may, the original statistics should indeed have come with the criteria and methodology for determining whether a particular story is original or recycled. And it ought to be expanded to include TAS, DSC, PIC, LD, PRO, SNW, SFA, and both prime and Abramsverse theatrical films (am I forgetting something?).
I'll start with a few TOS episode reviews and comments.
TOS
TOS 2-5 The Apple
From TOS 1-21 The Return of the Archons
"First, we get the world-running computer. We’ve seen this before, in “The Return of the Archons,” and this has pretty much the same beats, with just minor variations."
Star Trek The Original Series Rewatch: "The Apple" - Reactor
“The Apple” Written by Max Ehrlich Directed by Joseph Pevney Season 2, Episode 9 Production episode 60338 Original air date: October 13, 1967 Stardate: 3715.3 Captain’s log. The Enterprise is in orbit of Gamma Trianguli VI, under orders to make contact with the natives, and also to make sense of...
reactormag.com
"They managed to take "Return of the Archons" and strip the story of what little redeeming qualities it had."
The Original Series, Season 2: The Apple
The Original Series, Season Two "The Apple" Airdate: October 13, 1967 39 of 80 produced 34 of 80 aired Click here to watch on CBS.com ...
TOS 2-18 The Immunity Syndrome
From TOS 2-06 The Doomsday Machine
"I think this is a terrific epsiode - very similar to "The Doomsday Machine" but not quite as great"
"The Immunity Syndrome" | Star Trek: TOS | Jammer's Reviews
In-depth critical reviews of Star Trek and some other sci-fi series. Includes all episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series, The Animated Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds. Also, Star Wars, the new...
TOS 2-24 The Ultimate Computer
From TOS 2-3 The Changeling
"It’s odd that “The Ultimate Computer” directly follows “The Changeling” in this syndication package since the two stories are so similar: two tricked-out thinking machines run amuck, both defeated by Kirk’s time-honored technique of driving computers crazy with logic."
Review “The Ultimate Computer” Remastered + Thoughts On TOS-R To Date
To quote one of my favorite bad Kirk lines: “Out of the nowhere; into the here!” It’s a pleasure to take a crack at another Trek Remastered review, and a very special one at that…Other than “The Doomsday Machine,” no classic Trek episode has been more anticipated in Remastered form than the late...
trekmovie.com
TOS 2-25 Bread and Circuses
From TOS 2-23 The Omega Glory
Better than Original
"I know Roddenberry only adopted the parallel-Earths conceit because it was the only way to make the show affordable, since it’s cheaper to reuse existing costumes, props, etc. than to design and build completely alien societies all the time. But he really embraced it and doubled down on it both here and in “The Omega Glory,” taking it to a ridiculous extreme"
Star Trek The Original Series Rewatch: "Bread and Circuses" - Reactor
“Bread and Circuses” Written by Gene Roddenberry and Gene L. Coon Directed by Ralph Senensky Season 2, Episode 14 Production episode 60343 Original air date: March 15, 1968 Stardate: 4040.7 Captain’s log. The Enterprise has found debris that appears to be the remains of the S.S. Beagle, which...
reactormag.com
"Yeah, TOS was really lame with the "parallel Earth" repeating theme. As Paul points out, just two episodes earlier they had "Omega Glory", about another planet whose history parallels Earth, right down to the names of countries and apparently the complete text of the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and a renegade starship captain who completely violates the prime directive and becomes a leader. Almost exactly the same plot, just cross out "US" and write in "Rome". "
"Bread and Circuses" | Star Trek: TOS | Jammer's Reviews
In-depth critical reviews of Star Trek and some other sci-fi series. Includes all episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series, The Animated Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds. Also, Star Wars, the new...
It was what allowed the show to be produced.
Thanks for the reply, but, instead of refuting my point, you supported it.
You cherry-picked a quote from the cited article, but failed to include the part further on in the same paragraph that refutes the premise that one episode was recycled from the other. From the article you cited:
It’s odd that “The Ultimate Computer” directly follows “The Changeling” in this syndication package since the two stories are so similar: two tricked-out thinking machines run amuck, both defeated by Kirk’s time-honored technique of driving computers crazy with logic. Both are also classic Trek “bottle shows” of the type beloved by producer Bob Justman because they employed only the standing Enterprise sets. But while Nomad (as built by special effects artist Jim Rugg and voiced by the inimitable Vic Perrin) has its charm, “Ultimate Computer” has the one-two punch of the impressive Richard Daystrom and the throbbing, supercilious M-5. Marshall is magnificent: you easily believe that this is a human legend boarding the Enterprise with his regal bearing and profound bass voice, the finest this side of James Earl Jones. But Marshall also adds the perfect grace notes to let you know that this hero has feet of clay: he’s arrogant, dismissive of Spock, Kirk, the Enterprise—just about everything not built by his own hands.
Concerning what you did quote from this paragraph, it's also worth emphasizing that the observation that there is obvious similarity between the two episodes falls far short of supporting the claim that one episode was recycled from the other. There is a chain of reasoning involving the pedigree of the two teleplays that you would have to demonstrate. Given the origin of TUC from Wolfe's spec script, there is an enormous unbridged gap.
Star trek from the tos to Berman era did have a lot of unique stories. During the kurtzman era they relied on too much of TOS and TNG stories to get them through.
A few.
You mean 'likes'? No, nothing there that I've seen.
Makes sense. While TOS onward sometimes share a vague similarity , the underlying themes or causes of the plot (e.g. "Doomsday Machine" and "Immunity Syndrome" both have a big galactic baddie killing everything in its path, with no explanation of propulsion, and has to be destroyed. But that's about it and it's generic. The nuances, themes, minutiae, and what the baddie is are radically different. After all, the big galactic windsock didn't live inside an anti-universe zone of darkness fueling itself with out universe's life energies... among other differences.
Then there's TNG's mostly-classic "The Enemy", which was inspired in part by the flick "Enemy Mine"... but feels original and its own thing
Heck, TNG's "Where No One Has Gone Before" has far more in common with "The Naked Time" in terms of showing what makes our heroes tick and that's two weeks after the craptacular "The Naked Now" which squandered a reboot of the 1966 original tale in favor of just making everyone horny.
DS9's "Starship Down" may have been influenced by TNG's "Disaster" and does a far better job of it.
I keep thinking TNG's "Sarek" may have influenced DS9's "Dramatis Personae" in terms of some unknown reason the crew get all uppity and such...
You don't seem to be engaging in any actual discussion. You just keep showing up at random points in the thread to post more lists of things.I'll start with a few TOS episode reviews and comments.
TOS
TOS 2-5 The Apple
From TOS 1-21 The Return of the Archons
"First, we get the world-running computer. We’ve seen this before, in “The Return of the Archons,” and this has pretty much the same beats, with just minor variations."
Star Trek The Original Series Rewatch: "The Apple" - Reactor
“The Apple” Written by Max Ehrlich Directed by Joseph Pevney Season 2, Episode 9 Production episode 60338 Original air date: October 13, 1967 Stardate: 3715.3 Captain’s log. The Enterprise is in orbit of Gamma Trianguli VI, under orders to make contact with the natives, and also to make sense of...
"They managed to take "Return of the Archons" and strip the story of what little redeeming qualities it had."
The Original Series, Season 2: The Apple
The Original Series, Season Two "The Apple" Airdate: October 13, 1967 39 of 80 produced 34 of 80 aired Click here to watch on CBS.com ...www.treknobabble.net
TOS 2-18 The Immunity Syndrome
From TOS 2-06 The Doomsday Machine
"I think this is a terrific epsiode - very similar to "The Doomsday Machine" but not quite as great"
"The Immunity Syndrome" | Star Trek: TOS | Jammer's Reviews
In-depth critical reviews of Star Trek and some other sci-fi series. Includes all episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series, The Animated Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds. Also, Star Wars, the new...www.jammersreviews.com
TOS 2-24 The Ultimate Computer
From TOS 2-3 The Changeling
"It’s odd that “The Ultimate Computer” directly follows “The Changeling” in this syndication package since the two stories are so similar: two tricked-out thinking machines run amuck, both defeated by Kirk’s time-honored technique of driving computers crazy with logic."
Review “The Ultimate Computer” Remastered + Thoughts On TOS-R To Date
To quote one of my favorite bad Kirk lines: “Out of the nowhere; into the here!” It’s a pleasure to take a crack at another Trek Remastered review, and a very special one at that…Other than “The Doomsday Machine,” no classic Trek episode has been more anticipated in Remastered form than the late...
TOS 2-25 Bread and Circuses
From TOS 2-23 The Omega Glory
Better than Original
"I know Roddenberry only adopted the parallel-Earths conceit because it was the only way to make the show affordable, since it’s cheaper to reuse existing costumes, props, etc. than to design and build completely alien societies all the time. But he really embraced it and doubled down on it both here and in “The Omega Glory,” taking it to a ridiculous extreme"
Star Trek The Original Series Rewatch: "Bread and Circuses" - Reactor
“Bread and Circuses” Written by Gene Roddenberry and Gene L. Coon Directed by Ralph Senensky Season 2, Episode 14 Production episode 60343 Original air date: March 15, 1968 Stardate: 4040.7 Captain’s log. The Enterprise has found debris that appears to be the remains of the S.S. Beagle, which...
"Yeah, TOS was really lame with the "parallel Earth" repeating theme. As Paul points out, just two episodes earlier they had "Omega Glory", about another planet whose history parallels Earth, right down to the names of countries and apparently the complete text of the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and a renegade starship captain who completely violates the prime directive and becomes a leader. Almost exactly the same plot, just cross out "US" and write in "Rome". "
"Bread and Circuses" | Star Trek: TOS | Jammer's Reviews
In-depth critical reviews of Star Trek and some other sci-fi series. Includes all episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series, The Animated Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds. Also, Star Wars, the new...
Sorry, couldn't resist.
TNG (Part 1)
TNG 1-3 The Naked Now
From TOS 1-4 The Naked Time
"The plot of this episode was based on the Star Trek: The Original Series episode "The Naked Time", written by John D.F. Black. Like that episode, this one was intended by Gene Roddenberry to serve as a means to quickly introduce the wants and needs of new characters. However, he was aware, in this case, that approving the story to proceed to the script stage was a calculated risk; although he had decided and declared that Star Trek: The Next Generation wouldn't be a retread of TOS, he was aware he might be accused of simply copying the original series with this story."
"Even if you get past the fact that The Naked Now is a rip-off, there are other conceptual reasons it seems a poor choice for the second episode."
TNG 1-4 Code of Honor
From TOS 2-1 Amok Time
"At least it's not boring. If you are going to make a subpar TNG ripped off of TOS, you could do worse than Amok Time. Lots of little details to look at. I think they made an effort here, even if it had bizarre choices."
"Code of Honor" | Star Trek: TNG | Jammer's Reviews
In-depth critical reviews of Star Trek and some other sci-fi series. Includes all episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series, The Animated Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds. Also, Star Wars, the new...
"So let’s take it as read that “Code of Honor” is utterly abominable at a conceptual level, try to forgive the people we’ll be spending the next seven years with (because it really wasn’t their fault) and take a look at everything else that sucks about this repulsive train wreck. The first thing we notice after stripping away the most obvious hideousness is that the plot is basically an apathetic retread of “Amok Time”, with a member of the Enterprise forced to fight in ritual combat, with the clandestine administration of a neurosuppressor agent to one of the combatants a key part of the battle."
“A bon entendeur ne faut qu'un parole.”: Code of Honor
It's so bad.Would you believe it actually gets worse?Let's square away the obvious right away. “Code of Honor” is catastrophically, disgustingly and inexcusably racist. I don't think anyone disputes that. Jonathan Frakes describes it bluntly as a “racist piece of shit”, and h
www.eruditorumpress.com
TNG 1-5 The Last Outpost
From TOS 1-18 Arena
"Issue number three: TNG is five episodes in, and with the exception of the two-parter pilot, every episode of this new show has been a rip-off of the old one. "The Naked Now" actually stole their script from "The Naked Time." And "Code of Honor" is a blatant gender-reversed "Amok Time." "The Last Outpost" is "Arena." Think about it, and see how well it matches up: Kirk & Co are chasing some unknown alien through an unexplored area of the galaxy when both ships are paralyzed. Representatives from each ship end up on the surface, where it is expected they will fight. They do fight. Some smarty-pants alien appears to talk to the humans, who have won the fight. The smarty-pants alien admits that he was behind the ship-paralyzing, and he has learned that humans have the potential to be more. The smarty-pants alien then asks the human if he would like it if he destroyed the alien who lost. "No," says the human. "We will be benevolent and let them go." Both parties are released by the smarty-pants alien."
TNG 1-10 Hide and Q
From TOS 1-17 The Squire of Gothos
"There's another big Trek inspiration at play in this episode, though: the classic series episode "The Squire of Gothos." That episode featured a powerful alien with godlike powers known as Trelane, who forced the crew to participate in games for his amusement... until his parents came to take him back home for discipline. While the "godlike super alien" aspect of this had been lifted already upon Q's creation for "Encounter at Farpoint," the actual portrayal on both the page and in the finished product did treat Q and Trelane as reasonably different kinds of characters, I thought. But not so here. Q basically is Trelane in this episode."
TNG Flashback: Hide and Q
Nine episodes into the run of Star Trek: The Next Generation, the series did its first sequel (of sorts) to one of its own episodes, the e...
drheimlich.blogspot.com
TNG 1-12 The Big Goodbye
From TOS 2-17 A Piece of the Action
Better than Original
"But you make a good argument for The Big Goodbye, and I think the above logic could also apply there. The Enterprise interacting with a 20th century subculture is a very TOS concept (A Piece of the Action, Patterns of Force), but the execution is a lot smarter (and less gimmicky) than randomly stumbling across “planet of the gangsters II.”"
Star Trek: The Next Generation – The Big Goodbye (Review)
Sadly, the follow-up, the Long Sleep, was never produced…
them0vieblog.com
TNG 1-18 Home Soil
From TOS 1-25 The Devil in the Dark
"I liked this episode a lot better when it was called 'The Devil in the Dark.' I wasn't five minutes into the episode when I realised what I was watching was remake of one of my favourite TOS episodes. But instead of everyone running around a bunch of caves in search of "a pizza crossed with a carpet", this episode featured lots and lots of scenes of everyone staring at a tiny LED as the computer tells them "It's alive, it's alive!""
Star Trek The Next Generation: Home Soil
Mark Greig reviews 'Home Soil,' a not-so-great episode of 'Star Trek: The Next Generation.'
TNG 2-7 Unnatural Selection
From TOS 2-12 The Deadly Years
"A warmed-over rehash of the original seriers’ “The Deadly Years,” without even the fun of having a cool Walter Koenig girly-scream. Bad enough that this is an episode that focuses on Pulaski that mostly makes her look like an idiot, it also gives us the lamest of technobabble solutions: the transporter fixes it!"
Star Trek: The Next Generation Rewatch: "Unnatural Selection" - Reactor
“Unnatural Selection” Written by John Mason & Mike Gray Directed by Paul Lynch Season 2, Episode 7 Production episode 40272-133 Original air date: January 30, 1989 Stardate: 42494.8 Captain’s Log: The Enterprise picks up a distress call from the U.S.S. Lantree. The captain, Telaka, says that...
reactormag.com
"The first two seasons of TNG were plagued with clumsy dialog and derivative stories, this episode being a prime example of both. This story was a rip off of The Deadly Years from TOS. Diana Muldaur being a veteran of the TOS years played her role as Dr. Pulaski with more ease and naturalness than the others she couldn't carry it off NY herself. This is an episode I never watch."
"Unnatural Selection" | Star Trek: TNG | Jammer's Reviews
In-depth critical reviews of Star Trek and some other sci-fi series. Includes all episodes of Star Trek: The Original Series, The Animated Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise, Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds. Also, Star Wars, the new...
It is boring and offensive. There's very little, anything, redeemable here in this story. Amok Time expanded Spock as a character, Vulcan as a planet, and some cultural touchstones.
I'll get to the Voyager section.
