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Design the Next Enterprise
- Thread starter Shikarnov
- Start date
Hi guys, have to say I wish I could say I was as happy as I was when I got the first emails, but the backlash from my win has basically took the fun out of it. I know I was CLEARLY not the fan favorite, that has been made perfectly clear here and on other sites. That being said, i did a quicky rendering nothing special just a little clean up of the concept sketch I created. This is the last art of the Enterprise F I am going to do seeing as it does nothing but cause such harsh feelings. I am curious to see how close I got to what Cryptic is going to do with it. Now I have a pretty thick skin, I have been doing art and design as a profession for 15 years and I must be doing something right because my work can be seen at Disney World, Universal Studios, on television, in magazines and on DVD, but I hate to say it but this got to me. I have to say I have lost contracts and had people actually slam doors in my face and never once did I cry about it. I am going to walk away from this proud but saddened by the reactions. I would like to put this whole scenario behind me. To those who liked the idea I came up with I thank you for the support. All I ask is please don't ask me to do anymore with this design, as far as I am concerned the Enterprise F was just one more thing I have done, and I am moving on.
Day one purchase or mission attempt for me even more now.
The scary thing is I am a character Artist too (At least in my free time). The Titan was the first time I really attempted to create a starship. I admit I drew the enterprise 1701 alot growing up, but neverseriously tried to create a ship until the Titan. Now it it is easier.
All I wanted to do when I went to art school was to be a comic book artist (Limited Independent luck there, no major labels yet) . I ended up falling into ad design doing illustration on the side. Now I am being out sourced in a few months to a company in the Pacific (Been With my company for 12 years).
Hopefully I can find my way into a more creative position where I can create characters like you do. Disney sounds like a great place (I kinda, no I do envy you in that respect.)
After seeing what Dac is doing with the neck I hope Cryptic goes that route. The Saucer alone with the ring kinda has a Vulcan warp ship feel to it. I can even imagine the saucer having limited warp capacity with Impulse and warp engines built into the ring. I know it doesn't, but I can see it in my minds eye. If the saucer does end up seperating like that it will leave the secondary hull looking bad ass.
I'm just gonna go ahead and ditto this.
Didn't take long for me to come around. No sir, not long at all.
I can see a precedent for an alternate kind of warp propulsion in the ring area, instead of nacelles -- and frankly it would look cool anyway. But I think you'd still need some kind of deflector dish, somewhere. Now, does the deflector function take place in the ring area as well? Or should Adam mount an auxiliary deflector, NX-01-style, inside the primary hull?
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As I understand it, the rest is up to Cryptic.
Sci-Fi and fantasy vehicles and structures are really all I can do.
My hand drawing ability is about as rough as your average 1st year art student. I cheat A LOT by compositing CG with photos and then overpainting them together.
If I ever want a "9 to 5" job in the industry I have a feeling I'll need to develop my speed drawing ability, as I doubt anyone wants an artist who's abilities are so limited and niche when they can hire someone more versatile for the same salary.
Still... Maybe I could get contracts doing cover art for self publishers. It's something I've been thinking about a lot recently, and I've been trying to find websites with information and resources without much luck. Every contract seems to be an "if I get paid, you'll get paid" type of arrangement, which doesn't really work when the rent is due.
I've also been thinking about going back to school. UAF is offering a new film degree program. The wife and I have been abstractly pondering quiting our jobs and getting scholarships, or failing that, student loans. I really don't want to fix stupid people's computers for the rest of my life.
BTW, I heard Cryptic might be hiring. In what may have been a fit of insanity, I've revised my resume and sent it in to them.
Can't hurt right?
My hand drawing ability is about as rough as your average 1st year art student. I cheat A LOT by compositing CG with photos and then overpainting them together.
If I ever want a "9 to 5" job in the industry I have a feeling I'll need to develop my speed drawing ability, as I doubt anyone wants an artist who's abilities are so limited and niche when they can hire someone more versatile for the same salary.
Still... Maybe I could get contracts doing cover art for self publishers. It's something I've been thinking about a lot recently, and I've been trying to find websites with information and resources without much luck. Every contract seems to be an "if I get paid, you'll get paid" type of arrangement, which doesn't really work when the rent is due.
I've also been thinking about going back to school. UAF is offering a new film degree program. The wife and I have been abstractly pondering quiting our jobs and getting scholarships, or failing that, student loans. I really don't want to fix stupid people's computers for the rest of my life.
BTW, I heard Cryptic might be hiring. In what may have been a fit of insanity, I've revised my resume and sent it in to them.
Can't hurt right?
Heh, im on the flipside of this. Last year I finished a degree in Digital Animation, and I've been applying for jobs since to no avail.
At this point, i'd love a computer repair job.
Fuzzy it never hurts to try. Dac almost there, the saucer is indeed round not oval and the neck struts should not be as round as they leave the saucer. But aside from that it looks awesome. I wish I wasn't stuck at work right now would be home doing some drawings. See you guys it's all your fault. I wasn't gonna do this but to see this brought to life make me want to do more.
Glad we could help turn the attitude around...now get going and be creative.
That is true. I would think that technology would be advanced enough to allow it. At least I would like to think so.
*Mojomoe: I will agree with the others that she is a beautiful ship, and I like how her hull coloring is off-white like the JJ-Prise, but there is still one thing that I just couldn't get over. It isn't the neck, since that looks thick enough to withstands most attacks, and chances has it that an attack powerful enough to sever the neck would destroy the ship outright anyhow. But the one thing I couldn't stand is those super thin nacelle pylons. One good shot alone could sever a pylon, not to mention that it seems to put an unnecessary strain on structural integrity.
*Cary L. Brown: The idea of using a dual engineering hulls, one on the top and one on the bottom, and putting nacelles on the side, is a new idea (at least as far as I can remember).
I like the saucer, which evokes the look of the Galaxy saucer, but is an actual circle. Which I prefer to the shortened oval. It is simple and elegant.
I probably would have tried to make the neck shorter or even go the route of the Commonwealth class. Here is the link is case you're not familiar with her:
http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/screenshots/File/112185/1
I would also made the way that the nacelles and saucer connect transition more smoothly. With your permission, I'd like to play around with your design a little, and sketch some ideas that I have.
Anyways, what you've come up with so far looks like it will prove to be interesting.
Heh, a part of me wants to indulge in this idea. But the other part of me knows how unrealistic it probably is. Do you have any idea how difficult it would be to fit both the turbolift system and the separation and wing hinging systems into the necks, which are pretty thin?
I'm having a hard time imagining it. The hardest part of all however would probably be getting the necks to look good as wings, while also making them look good while connected to the secondary hull. Even though the technology available might be sufficient to make it possible, I somehow doubt that Cryptic would want to put a hull separation sequence in the game as complicated as this would no doubt prove to be, considering that the Prometheus isn't capable of separation.
Still, I don't know, who thinks this might be a good idea to play around with for another occasion?
Yeah, that thought has crossed my mind. I mean, sure it is possible to shoot both necks, but it would be more difficult to sever both of them than it would be to sever, say a Vesper class. Do I think that getting rid of the neck completely is a better solution? Yes.
But I think having a dual neck while leaving the saucer not far from the engineering section is a good compromise between those who want 'a tall ship' and those (including me) who wants something sleek and low.
I really like this. This image leads me to believe that the two necks are actually one continuous piece that circles the secondary hull. If it were to separate I picture the secondary hull just slipping out of the "ring". Was this your intention?
Wow, I just got my wind back from your post. If the ring did actually encompass the secondary hull it could separate with it intact. Now here me out on this, if the ring was with the saucer and we know that ring warp drive technology is out there what you think of perhaps the saucer being warp capable. I am going to do an alteration to this rendering and send it to cryptic to add to there ideas you never know.
I'm sorry to hear that all the negative comments had such an effect on you for a moment, but I'm also glad to see that you've recovered you're enthusiasm.
I agree with many others that fans shouldn't be rejecting your design or harshly criticizing her. I personally think that fans who do not have any criticism on how to improve her without fundamentally changing her design should probably hold their tongues, and learn to accept her. She might not be what I had initially envisioned as the next Enterprise, but I feel optimistic that I come to love her.
I like how the navigational deflector angles forward from the top of the lip the the bottom. That is similar to how I probably would have designed it myself (ei; make a hybrid between the design of the Intrepid and Sovereign deflectors).
I adamantly think that the saucer should have warp drive, or even Quantum Slipstream. The idea of having the dual neck become a ring drive has got me thinking that it would look better if the saucer were mounted in the center of the ring, and slid out of the secondary hull, though because this would fundamentally change the design, I'm thinking this is something for me to explore at a later time.
Dac renderings has sort of been making me want to play around with a few sketches. I think that the pair of necks would look better if they were further integrated with the secondary hull. With your permission of course. I'm also thinking that a retractable warp drive like that of the Delta Flyer (but round), could be put around the edges of the saucer were it to separate horseshoe style.
Let's remember that 24th century starships didn't carry armor until the Defiant rolled around, so they weren't really worried about an opponent breaching their shields. Most scientifically plausible designs for near-light spacecraft don't exactly look sturdy, either. There's enough precedence for slim pylons in canon as well, and darn it, it just looks good.
There's also the matter of scale. With the usual Federation design elements, larger, thicker structures often tend to suggest a smaller ship (like the Cheyenne class, or Voyager), whilst slimmer structures suggest something bigger (Galaxy, Sovereign). YMMV.
Exactly. If everyone is OK with the TMP Enterprise's neck, then they should shut up and be fine with this. It's probably the same thickness, if not a tad thicker.
Just repeat after me.. "It's the INTERNET... it's the INTERNET."
Seriously, you can't take the viciousness of some people on here (where they are entirely safe from having their noses punched into their sinus cavities, as they so often deserve!) as anything but that. Most of the most vicious attacks you'll see are from people who, if faced with you in a private, face-to-face, one-on-one situation would be fwightened widdle girls...
That said, it's also appropriate to just avoid situations where you are subjected to these nasty little cretins if they won't leave you alone. I've been there... in fact, until this very thread, I've stayed away from the TrekBBS for more than a year, because this site has its own share of that sort, and these people do tend to get a pass in some cases for reasons I've never quite been able to grasp. Still, the TrekBBS also has some really great folks, and you're more likely to get a fair shake in this particular forum than in many other places on the 'net, or even on this BBS.
So... don't let the bastards get to you. You WON. Plain and simple. Your design may not have been my first choice, but it's a fine design concept, and there are certainly elements of it I particularly like. That the rest of the contest may have had elements of unfairness does not in any way reflect on your concept.
Grow a thicker skin. If you don't like the abuse, you can walk away... there's nothing wrong with that. But you shouldn't let it BOTHER you.
I remember, with the Titan contest, that I felt a certain "kinship" with Sean, and tried to engage in some constructive dialogue at the time. I said that I had a preference for the "Titan" to be more of a "getting back to the classic Trek design style," whereas Sean's design was much more in line with the TNG-and-later design style... and I suggested a few tweaks to the impulse engine placement... but otherwise, I was very supportive of his work.
That said, I immediately came under some ferocious criticism... not from Sean, but from a few others (including a couple of marginally-successful Trek authors). And they seemed to want to turn it into a "war" between Sean and me, which was never remotely something I wanted, nor do I think it was something Sean wanted.
Add to that the ongoing (even to this day) attacks I get on my design, even from a few of those folks on this BBS... I was told it was a "kitbash" (then again, Sean was told his was as well... neither of which was remotely true!) and unoriginal and so forth. I was told it was ugly, ungainly, goofy, stupid, etc, etc. The number of attacks on me, PERSONALLY, was really very high. I left the S&S forums entirely because every post I made, regardless of topic or content, resulted in at least a dozen "shut the @#$* up and go die" responses, which made it totally "un-fun." So I came here, where I only got that response in the "Trek Lit" forum (and mainly from a couple of the less-talented authors in there, which never especially bothered me), and from two or three (admittedly damned persistent!) critics who are still regulars on this BBS.
I never minded the minor "I don't care for this or that" comments (mainly focused on the high-power, long-range scanner array in the "nose" of my ship) because most... MOST... of those were made by people who were thoughtful commentators. That's why I stayed active here for a long time. (It was only when the "trolls" started dogging me from post to post, forum to forum, just to harangue me that I finally walked away from this place last year.)
I'm throwing this out to emphasize that you need to keep this in perspective. It's not an attack on you, or your design, if someone else presents their own design even after you've won. A LOT of people put forth tremendous effort into this, and they (understandably) will love their own efforts. Unless they LITERALLY rip into you and yours... don't allow this to make you feel like that's what they're "really" doing.
As I said, before, I really LOVE Fuzzy's design. And I want to see that as a fully-developed starship. As I said before, that would have been my first choice.
But this is not, in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER, a criticism of yours. And I can imagine your concept being developed into a fine design. I certainly like it better, aesthetically, than I ever liked the 1701-D's configuration, yet that is still the "best realized" of all of the ships we've ever seen.
Keep some perspective. You WON. You will, hopefully, be as fortunate as Sean has been, and will be recognized as the "designer" of the 1701-F as he is of the Titan. There is no reason to get "sulky" about it.
It's the freakin' INTERNET. Ignore the vicious bastards... as long as you're having fun with it, ENJOY IT.
And don't take every critique or statement of preference which isn't 100% in your design's favor as an attack. "Constructive criticism" is a good thing, and there are plenty of folks (more here than in most other places on the net, honestly) who'll give you exactly that... while there are only a few "jerks" around here, relatively speaking. (And as long as you're not on their radar, like I got myself by challenging the "clique" here on a few occasions, they'll probably leave you alone!)
Now...
I'd like to point out something I proposed a while back, in fact... it was in my "Cary's take on the 1701" thread (still yet to be pruned from this BBS, so you can find it under my profile if you really want to see it). We were talking about the original TOS Enterprise design, and in particular about the "magic" required in some places. I'd been talking about the one element of the TOS design which I simply didn't like from a mechanical engineering standpoint, and how I'd have altered that design (had I been there in 1965) to make it more suitable from my standpoint.
In a certain sense, what you've done is similar to that, I think.
I'm also somewhat fond of the potential for the ring-pylon as a secondary (low-yield) FTL drive system for the saucer. I've long had a problem with the idea of a primary-hull "lifeboat" which would take decades or even centuries to get to an inhabitable world. Non-FTL "lifeboats" are suitable only in the "civilized" realms... not in the frontier regions.
(FYI, for those who haven't heard my previous rants on the subject, I'm one of those who doesn't necessarily equate "faster than light" with "warp drive." In other words, I see "warp drive" as being one specific drive system capable of FTL propulsion, but there are certainly others as well, including the TOS-centric establishment of "impulse" as being capable of FTL as well (albeit what I've defined as "subspace-assisted impulse," which I hold to being what was in common usage prior to the "time barrier being broken" just few years prior to "The Cage", and limited to about 75C)
I do think that your concept, once fleshed out, can be turned into a fine design. I'm pretty sure that part of the "unofficial criteria" from CBS/Cryptic was that the design should be vague enough for them to do whatever they want with it. (I wonder if Fuzzy's design was just too SPECIFIC for them?) Your ship could be smallish, or it could be bigger than my "intergalactic explorer" concept, as far as we can tell from your sketch, after all.
(This is another reason I really preferred the Titan contest... the ship's size, functionality, and general role were all described in reasonably full detail... so we knew what the ship had to be, what it had to do, and why. The only real issues were "what will it look like?")
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The unbroken ring shape feels MUCH sturdier than the separate strut shapes did, and you should note that last image is alleviating a lot of doubts on the STO forums.
To true, I never took anything that you said as hurtful...Except my impulse engines...LOL.
Water under the bridge. If you take a look at the mesh I had Ellery stagger the Impulse Drive Grids to point back.
I was always able to take constructive Crits and Cary you gave them. It was the total pricks that I had issues with and I would chime in when I thought they were out of line.
The way I see it our designs are all part of one big fleet. I like to think we all can fly in the same area without taking pot shots at eachother...well maybe not in the my Dark Mirror Universe where anything is far game...LOL
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